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Text 798, 86 rader
Skriven 2004-11-15 05:55:00 av Tinyurl.Com/uh3t (1:278/230)
Ärende: Re: No Grace Period for M
=================================


> From: an588@freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Woodgold)
> It might be possible to make an argument that
> the original polymer would not have died out, because
> it would probably have had some advantages/uses.

If something newer did the same task better, there'd be advantage in
keeping the old thing, and by chance neutral mutation eventually the
old thing could be lost.

> One difference between your description and mine is that
> I'm assuming the RNA, at first, didn't actually create
> nucleotides, but just influenced the joining of them
> together into certain patterns.

I think you misunderstand my position, partly because I never stated
it. If RNA wasn't the first replicator, then later when RNA got
manufactured by life, its original function could have been just about
anything, not necessarily anything remotely related to what RNA is used
for now, and not necessarily your idea of influencing joining things
either. For all we know, it could have been a way to store energy, in a
way that's easy to metabolize efficiently, for example there might have
been something in the early cell which grabbed the end of an RNA strand
and stepwise metabolized it one monomer at a time, in a nice orderly
way that makes it easy to guarantee energy will be available when
needed without relying on chance bumping into a free sugar or fat
molecule. That mechanism is now replaced by storing energy in sugars
and fats and having many copies of the metabolizing enzymes and having
really good regulatory mechanisms to manage all those copies so they
don't run amok and make too much ATP when not needed.

> It seems to me to be simpler and easier for Life to
> have begun by using building blocks that were already
> there, rather than doing the work of creating them.

Are you claiming that RNA monomers are available in large quantities
already pre-formed in the final mix from the Miller-Urey process?

> If huge quantities of some substance were created, it
> seems to me more plausible that it was created by
> ordinary chemical processes, not replication.

A bunch of very simple chemicals are naturally available in primitive
atmospheres/oceans, before the Miller-Urey process starts: Water and
most of: carbon dioxide, methane, ammonia, cations and anions from
salts etc.dissolved in the water. Add high-energy input and cyanide and
formaldehyde are promptly produced in high yield. Run Miller-Urey
process for a while and somehow a bunch of other chemicals are
produced: amino acids, simple sugars, and the rest I don't remember.
Beyond that, there's no specific chemical species produced in large
quantities, until the first successful replicator grows exponentially,
resulting in depletion of whatever it consumes, and mass-production of
whatever it produces.

If huge quantities of some substance were created, if it was something
in the Miller-Urey result mix, then of course that's how it was made,
otherwise it had to be made by the first successful replicator or by
some later successful replicator. After the first successful replictor
became established, there was a reduction in chemical cascades past the
point of the replictor-food, since that point in the cascade would be
immediately gobbled up by the replicator. Also there would be a whole
new set of chemical cascades which start from the mix of original
cascades plus the massive quantities of replicator-waste plus breakdown
of the replicator itself. If replicator-waste and replicator-corpses
are complicated chemicals, there's a good chance of a second replicator
forming quickly to consume such, yielding a new set of
second-replicator waste and second-replicator breakdown products
("corpses"). There might be a whole "food chain" starting with the
first successful replicator which eats Miller-Urey-product through the
various subsequent replicators that eat the result of the previous
replicator. These various replicators would compete for energy, but
because each is dependent on the previous, none of them would drive
earlier ones to extinction, merely reduce numbers of earlier
replicators, causing less food available for self, causing less
competition with earlier replicator, allowing earlier replicator to
increase again, providing more food for self, a stable
negative-feedback system which reaches an equilibrium mix of the
various replicators.
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