Text 15506, 465 rader
Skriven 2005-11-06 13:22:44 av Roy Witt (1:1/22)
  Kommentar till text 15357 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: looters in NO
=====================
01 Nov 05 17:24, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Roy Witt:


 >>>> people in California and probably as many cars registered. The
 >>>> Highway Patrol isn't allowed to use radar/laser on passenger
 >>>> vehicles,

 MvdV>>> Odd. Why would they forgo on such an efficinet means of catching
 MvdV>>> speeders?

 >> That has been one of the things that puzzles me too.

 MvdV> Than be prepared that one of these days they will change the rules
 MvdV> with the excuse of fighting terrorism.

California's methods of doing things is one reason why I no longer live
there. For instance, I registered my Camaro here in Texas as soon as I had
a residential address. The registration was close to expiration when I did
that.

California sent me a threatening letter that they'd cease real and/or
personal property if I didn't pay the registration on that car. I ignored
the letter, figuring that Texas would notify them that the car was now
registered in Texas. They didn't of course and when the second letter
arrived from California, I was very disgusted with them. This is why I've
sold my rental in CA and have extracted my bank accounts from CA to Texas.

 >> However, I find it easier to drive down those roads, knowing
 >> that I'm not going to be caught by some modern gadget that
 >> I can't refute on the spot, it's integrety.

 MvdV> There is indeed no arguing with these robot cops that we have here.
 MvdV> Actually, most of the time you never see them. You won;t know you
 MvdV> speeded until you find the ticket in the mail.

If it's means of detecting your speed is radar or laser, I'll know they're
there. And of course, the red-light cameras are easily defeated with a
polarized plate cover.

 >>>> so they have to rely on pacing to catch a speeder. In all of
 >>>> my years driving on California roads, I learned that the only
 >>>> way they can pace you is if you don't see them.

 MvdV>>> How can you not see them?

 >> When you're driving on a 5 lane freeway, especially with
 >> California's 30 some million cars and trucks on the road,
 >> it's awfully hard to spot them in the crowd.

 MvdV> Ah, they are in unmarked cars....

They're marked on the doors, but they look like any other car on the road
in your rear view mirror; unless you can distinguish certain
characteristics, such as the low profile light bar, the push bar front
bumper and the daytime running lights and headlights at night.

 >>>> I learned to drive in the right hand lanes and to watch for
 >>>> them while maintaining a faster pace than those in the
 >>>> left hand lanes.

 MvdV>>> Ah, that alone would get you a ticket here. Overtaking on the
 MvdV>>> right is not allowed except when going at walking speed in a
 MvdV>>> traffic yam.

 >> That'd be a good idea if there weren't those who stubbornly
 >> drive in the 'passing' lane slower than traffic is allowed to go.

 MvdV> That is a no-no here as well. *All* lanes except the outer right
 MvdV> are for passing only. So you are supposed to drive in the right
 MvdV> lane and only leave it for overtaking. You may go the the next lane
 MvdV> on the left if there is someone already there. But after overtaking
 MvdV> one has to go to the right again as soon as traffic allows.

 MvdV> Plus that one should use the direction indicator when changing
 MvdV> lanes.

That's mandatory here. I often wonder who would notice that I used a
signal or not, if there was no one else on the road. Must I signal to
myself that I'm changing lanes?

 >> Not allowing any passing to the right on a 5 lane freeway
 >> would be rediculous.

 MvdV> In A "keep your lane system", yes. In Europe we use the "keep the
 MvdV> right lane" (or left in the UK and Ireland) system.

Here it's 'slow vehicles to the right', while leaving the left hand lane
open for passing. Unless it's a multiple lane road with more than two
lanes of traffic in one direction.

 >> the courts. Still, the cameras they had in San Diego were shut
 >> down for a time, because there was a conflict of interest involved,
 >> as the cameras were owned and operated by a private company, who
 >> shared in the fines collected from the violators.

 MvdV> That's asking for problems.

That's what they got too.

 >> Now I hear that they have those cameras on some interstate
 >> freeways here in Texas. Of course, the thing to do there is
 >> to find out where they are

 MvdV> Over here they have fixed and mobile cameras. Of the fixed ones,
 MvdV> only 20% are loaded with film at any one time. Of course you can't
 MvdV> see which ones.

Shades of Big Brother.

 >> and mount your rear plate on a hinge that you can manipulate
 >> from the drivers seat.

 MvdV> You don't want to be caught with a gadget like that over here...

Nor here, but such gadgets are widely used.

 MvdV> Radar detectors are outlawed here. The police employ radar detector
 MvdV> detectors.

Radar is easily defeated with a radar jammer. It detects the radar signal
and adds some white noise to the reflected signal, confusing the radar
gun. And, unlike radar jammers on the market, it's quite legal to use.

 MvdV> As an alternative there is warning system that uses a constantly
 MvdV> upgraded data base and a GPS receiver. It beeps when you approach
 MvdV> the location of a known speed trap. Better just slow down. If it is
 MvdV> a manned trap, they will send a cop on a motor cycle after you if
 MvdV> they see no plate. No way you can outrun a motor cycle. Not on our
 MvdV> crowded roads.

Nearly impossible to get away these days, but I did it once.

 >> My Silveado pickup doesn't have a front plate on it either. While on
 >> my way back from California, last Friday, I was tooling along about
 >> 85mph on interstate 10, heading east from El Paso. The speed limit is
 >> 75mph, by day, 65mph by night. As I got into the rolling hills of west
 >> Texas, sometimes my speed reached 95mph going down hill, then 75mph as
 >> I reached the crests. I passed a little red Honda Civic with a young
 >> manat the wheel. He fell in behind me and began to pace me at those
 >> speeds I mentioned.

 MvdV> Tricky. Over here that could result in a suspicion of an illegal
 MvdV> street race...

I suppose it could have here to, but then;

 >> Then for some reason, he decided to ride in the left lane of
 >> this two lane road. Against the law in Texas, as that lane is
 >> reserved for passing only.

 MvdV> Why didn't he just step on it to get past you?

No idea. Maybe he wanted me to go faster and then he'd fall behind,
leaving me as the first to run into the radar.

 >> At first he hung on my tail, then he caught up and passed me,
 >> only to return to my tail again. This went on for quite a while,
 >> many miles down the road.

 MvdV> So why didn't you just step on it to get rid of him?

LOL! I was already going 10 over the limit and sometimes 20...besides, I
don't think my Silverado would go much faster than 100mph.

 >> Out of the blue appeared a Texas state trooper coming from the
 >> opposite direction. He slowed down and gave us a look as if to
 >> intimidate us into stopping, I guess. The youngster in the Honda,
 >> who was now next to me, panicked and slammed on his brakes,

 MvdV> Almost an admission of guilt...

Yeup. Which is probably why he got pulled over and I didn't.

 MvdV> Not very smart. The cop has to *measure* the speed to be able to
 MvdV> write a ticket isn't it? A mere "it looked to me like he was way
 MvdV> over the speed limit won't stand in court would it?

I'm sure that if he wanted to, he could have pulled us both over and
written a ticket for something. Not being able to prove our speed, he
may have been able to get away with writing 'exhibition of speed', which
might fly in court. But, without any proof of how fast we were going, he'd
have a hard time making it stick.

 >> then fell in behind me and began to lose ground. I just stepped off
 >> the gas to get down to the speed limit. The trooper then crossed the
 >> median, and then paced us for a while and then decided to pull over
 >> the little red Honda.

 MvdV> But... what could he do? Buy the time he got there, the guy wasn't
 MvdV> speeding an more, was he?

No, and neither was I. However, he did pace us for a while. He was
probably making up his mind on whether to pull us both over, or just pull
the Honda over for driving in the passing lane.

 MvdV> I once was in similar situation. Ages ago when I still had the
 MvdV> Porsche. It was in the middle of the night on a deserted highway.
 MvdV> Speed limit 100 kph. I was doing 170-180. All of a sudden I saw a
 MvdV> police car on an intersection. And of course they saw me too. But
 MvdV> as they were not on my road yet, they could not *measure* my speed.

 MvdV> I probably could have outrun them, but that would have been a
 MvdV> stupid move as there are always more police cars where that on came
 MvdV> from and I can't outrun a radio signal.

 MvdV> So I simply slowed down and by the time they caught up with me and
 MvdV> could measure my speed I was doing a 100 kph. They stopped me and
 MvdV> asked for my driver's license but that was all they could do. We
 MvdV> both knew I was guilty of speeding but as they did not *measure* it
 MvdV> they had no case and they had to let me go.

 MvdV> Well, that was twenty five years ago...

I did the same thing, about 30 years ago. I entered the freeway intent on
catching up with a buddy of mine and passed a Sherrif at 120mph. When I
left off the accelorator, the vacuum generated sucked oil past the valve
guides and I left a trail of smoke behind me. Not wanting a ticket that
would make me pull those heads and fix the guides, I stepped back into it.
It took that Sherrif 5 miles to catch up to me and when he did, I was
doing the speed limit.

I pulled off the freeway and parked on a frontage road and waited for him.
When he walked up to my car, a 63 Corvette, he asked me what the hurry was
all about. And he accepted this story: I had just gotten off work and when
I arrived at home, I found my fish tank had a broken glass and was leaking
water all over the place. To fix it, I was on my way to a glass store, to
buy a patch kit until I could buy a new tank.

He bought it and told me that I better hurry to that store, as they were
closing in 10 minutes.

 >> I thinkk in the troopers eyes, the Honda driver looked the
 >> guiltiest, as he was in that passing lane and we were going
 >> about 85mph about then. Had the kid not panicked, he could have
 >> passed me as I backed off, and the trooper would have
 >> probably stopped me.

 MvdV> Yes, at that moment you were the easier target...

Accept that there wasn't anything he could  have done.

 >>>> That's true, but I can see an officer explaining to a judge
 >>>> why he ticketed me for no front plate, when the front plate law
 >>>> expired in less than two weeks.

 MvdV>>> Over here there would be little to explain. Up until Nov 1st
 MvdV>>> front plates are required. Period. It would be up tp you to
 MvdV>>> explain why you think you have the right to ignore the law. Most
 MvdV>>> likely the judge would triple your fine just for wasting his time
 MvdV>>> over such a minor issue.

 MvdV> OTOH, it would be a very bored policeman who would stop you for
 MvdV> something that in two weeks would no longer be a violation.

Very true. This past week, I drove the 98 Camaro to Illinois to visit my
mother on her 86th birthday. No front plate and obeying the speed limit
plus 5mph. Which they'll give you. Not one episode to report. Save for the
nearly 30mpg that I got.

 >> Over here I would ask for an extension and plead not guilty.
 >> If the officer happened to appear at the ensuing trial, it'd be
 >> months down the road and the chances of the ticket being thrown
 >> out would be greater than not.

 MvdV> Yes, there is always the chance it gets lost in the paper pile...

All it would take is a non-appearance by the officer who wrote the ticket.
I'd never be able to out-lie him if he did show. The judge is always going
to believe an 'officer of the court' over an honest citizen.

 >>>> And all I need to do is show the court that the car now
 >>>> has a front plate to get out of the ticket.

 MvdV>>> That is even more silly. Mounting a plate after the occuerence of
 MvdV>>> the violation annuls it?

 >> Yeup. It's called a 'fix-it' ticket. This also happens for
 >> instance, if your car has a burned out light bulb.

 MvdV> Ah, yes we have that too here. But that would only apply to
 MvdV> something that you can not prevent most of the time. Such as a
 MvdV> broken bulb. If you can fix it in the spot you are off the hook
 MvdV> anyway.

I did that once. I had a fairly new 65 Chevy that had a faulty bulb
socket. The socket would vibrate loose while driving and I'd always find
it hanging loose in the trunk. Fixing it was just to put it back in the
socket. I was pulled over in San Diego within the first few weeks I lived
there and fixed the light on the spot.

 MvdV> For a missing plate, you can get away with a "fix-it" ticket if you
 MvdV> can make the cop believe it was there when you drove off and lost
 MvdV> it very recently.

 MvdV> But that won't fly if there are no marks whatsoever to show that
 MvdV> there ever was a plate to begin with.

If you look at the front of that photo of my Z28, there used to be a
license plate mounting bracket screwed to the plastic grill, where it says
'Camaro' now. I think that was the first thing I did to that car when I
bought it.

 >> Show any officer that it's been fixed and they'll sign off the ticket.

 MvdV> Had that once with broken exhaust. Quick Fit didn't have it in
 MvdV> stock And I didn't want to go to the Porsche dealer as they rip you
 MvdV> off. Quick Fit didn't want to order it unless I made a deposit.

 MvdV> So when I was stopped next day for the broken exhaust, I showed
 MvdV> them the receipt for the deposit and I was allowed to move on. They
 MvdV> could have asked me to come back within ten days to show that it
 MvdV> had indeed been fixed, but they didn't. It was clear to them that I
 MvdV> *was* going to fix it...

I had a cop follow me to the exhaust shop, since my Corvette was pretty
loud after installing a set of headers in place of the factory exhaust
manifolds. When he saw me throw the keys into the mail slot, he knew what
I was up to and drove on.

 >>>> The states manufacture they're plates in their own prisons.
 >>>> This gives the inmates something to do besides lift weights
 >>>> and watch TV. Thus, I get something in return for my taxes
 >>>> that support those prisoners.

 MvdV>>> Over here that would be considered unfair competion for the
 MvdV>>> regular plate manufacturres.

 >> Over here any private company producing license plates would
 >> be charged with forgery.

 MvdV> Ah, not just anyone can make plates. You need a permit for that. To
 MvdV> get it you must show that the product meets the specifications.

I don't know for sure where they're made in Texas, perhaps Huntsville
prison. In CA, they're made in the San Quentin prison, north of San
Francisco. They're the only place that makes them in CA.

 MvdV>>> We'v had registration stickers on the windshield too. That system
 MvdV>>> was abandonned some twenty or 15 years ago. Same for the tag on
 MvdV>>> the plate for the compulsory yearly vehicle inspection.

 >> Everybody has a different way of doing these things.

 MvdV> Indeed. There is more that one way that leads to Rome...

 >> California doesn't have a safety inspection, except on
 >> commercial vehicles. They do, however, have a smog check
 >> every other year. You can't get a new registration until
 >> it passes that check. They issue you a certificate that must
 >> accompany your registration renewal and of course, your proof of
 >> liability insurance.

 MvdV> Here we have compulsory inspections for all vehicles over three
 MvdV> year old, except motor cycles and trailers under 3500 kg.

 MvdV> Doesn't matter if you drive it or not.

At the moment, they'd have to come to my place to check the 56...

 MvdV>>> It is all in the computer of the department of vehicle
 MvdV>>> registration. Cops don't have to stop you to check te
 MvdV>>> registration, all they do is enter the number on their keyboard
 MvdV>>> of their on-board terminal and they get all the data in seconds.
 MvdV>>> or if the squad car is not equipped wit at terminal ask the
 MvdV>>> dispatcher at the police station to do it for them.

 >> It's the same here in Texas. That sticker on the front
 >> windshield isn't very visible to the rear, so they rely
 >> on their laptop computer in the car to check out your car.

 MvdV> Makes sense. But then what if the plates are forged?

I'd think that the chances of someone matching the car compared to the
discription of it in their database would be hard to do. Therefore, it'd
be easy to get caught doing that. If you do forge a plate, the car is
impounded, so it best be a car you don't care about.

 MvdV>>> Of course this systems, like the automatic speed trap depends on
 MvdV>>> the plates being accurate. A false plate would defeat the system.
 MvdV>>> So three years ago they introduced new plates that are a lot
 MvdV>>> harder to forge than the old ones.

 >> I notice that your plates are a mile wide, compared to ours.

 MvdV> The standard plate is 52 x 11 cm.

Ours are 6 x 12 inches or 15.24 x 30.48 cm ... cars and trucks.

 MvdV> There is also a less used semi square plate that is 34 x 21 cm. For
 MvdV> motor cycles there is a small semi square plate of 21 x 14 cm. The
 MvdV> semi square plates have the date in two rows.

I'm not familiar with motorcycle plates, but they look to be 4 x 6 inches.

 MvdV> Most vehicles carry the standard plate.

 MvdV> Some imported American cars do not have enough room for the
 MvdV> standard plates and for those you can get an exemption to carry
 MvdV> plates that are less wide. The "American" plate is 31 x 11 cm.

Close enough.

 MvdV>>> Here you see a picture of the new plates:

 MvdV>>> http://www.emergencyvehicles.nl/images/kenteken1.jpg

 MvdV>>> On the lower left of the yellow part, marked by the pointer
 MvdV>>> "Unieke code" is a ten digit number. Every plate has a unique
 MvdV>>> number which is registered to the owner.

 >> I saw that, and several others. Two with NL, but I couldn't
 >> translate the explanation.

 MvdV> The ones with NL in a circle are the marks of the plate
 MvdV> manufacturer. There is a five digit number below the NL that is the
 MvdV> license number of the plate manufacturer.

Ahh.

 MvdV> Not that those marker are not visible unless from very close up. No
 MvdV> way you can see them from another car.

No doubt.

 MvdV>>> The marker above the right hyphen shows the number of the plate
 MvdV>>> manufacturer. The marker on the right middle shows the year and
 MvdV>>> week of issue.

 >> Ahhh, the NL markers.

 MvdV> No, they are not "NL" markers.

 MvdV> The "NL" nationality indicator is on the bottom of the blue
 MvdV> rectangle on the left.

 MvdV> That one is clearly visible when you are driving behind a car or
 MvdV> overtaking it.

 MvdV> (But not as good as the old white oval..)

 MvdV> Here is list of nationality codes:

 MvdV> http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/List_of_international_license_
 MvdV> plate_co des

 MvdV>>> Knowingly and willingly driving with forged plates carries a
 MvdV>>> maximum fine of EUR 5000 or six month in prison.

 >> Here, you lose the car. It's impounded and sold by the state.
 >> At least, that's the case in California. They do a lot of things
 >> differently here in Texas.

 MvdV> Impounding cars is not standard procedure here. Keep in mind that
 MvdV> "disappearing" here is not as easy as it is in the US.

California thinks that it's on the leading edge of how things should be
done in this country. Too many liberals in the state legislature and the
US Congress representing the state. It wasn't always that way and it was a
much nicer place to live, but the libs ruined it for everyone.



Roy
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