Text 39589, 138 rader
Skriven 2006-09-23 01:23:55 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
  Kommentar till text 39503 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: terrorism
=================
Hello Michiel.

22 Sep 06 23:01, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff.

 MV> 22 Sep 06 03:03, you wrote to me:

 JS>>>> If the echo paticipents at that point choose to ignore the
 JS>>>> moderator then other alternatives would need to be used.

 MV>>> Such as?

 JS>>>>  Yes... I know the effectiveness of feed cuts in todays
 JS>>>> Fidonet.

 MV>>> Then no more needs to be said. You have just admitted that you
 MV>>> have asked for the impossible.

 JS>>      No. An effective moderator would only have to resort to a
 JS>> feed cut as a last resort.

 MV> Of course. In the ideal case a good moderator will never have to use
 MV> it. This not being an ideal world howver...


     It wasn't an ideal world then either. I don't claim any special
abilities as a moderator. But I was able to avoid feed cut requests
through communication.

 JS>> When I was a moderator of a Z1_ echo some years back I don't
 JS>> recall ever having to resort to a feed cut.

 MV> I have been the moderator of the Dutch national points echo from 1993.
 MV> In the haydays of Fidonet it was a very active echo with over a 100
 MV> messages a day and moderating it was quit a job. In all those years I
 MV> had to apply the weapon of the feed cut against no more that three
 MV> participants. And none of thoss cuts were permanent.


     At one point I moderated about a half dozen echos. Mostly software
and OS related and they were pretty well behaved echos. Moderating the Z1
echo though took some work. Once I could get beyond the attitude and bravado
that a number of the echo participants had things worked out alot smoother.
While I never had to resort to a feed cut I did require a number of people
to "Go somewhere else for abit" from time to time.

 MV> That is history. I am still the moderator of points.028 but there is
 MV> nothing to moderate anymore. The number of particpants can be counted
 MV> on one hand and they all behave.

    Same here, I currently moderate several regional echos as well as a
couple regular software echos that are pretty well dead.

 JS>> Effective communication eliminated most problems.

 MV> But not all of them and having the ultimate weapon of the feed cut
 MV> makes all the difference. 99.9% of all problems can be solved without
 MV> ever even mentioning the feed cut, but the user knows it is there and
 MV> that is a strong incentive to cooperate with the moderator.

 MV> Times have changed. Whereas it was sometomes difficult to get a feed
 MV> cut in the old days, it is now next to impossible. Add to that that
 MV> FidoNet has almost become a sysop only network and that the few
 MV> remaining participants are not as submissive any more, the reality is
 MV> that the classical (Z1) way of moderating does not work any more.

     As a mail hub years ago I was probably asked 5 times to sever a nodes
connection to an echo. It was not an action that I took lightly.

 JS>>  Something that Björn as moderator has shown me no sign of.

 MV> As I said, you ask for the impossible. The harsh reality is that a
 MV> moderator has become a paper tiger that is powerless against an
 MV> uncooperative participant. And it did not start with Björn. Ask Joe
 MV> Delahaye about the time he was moderator of FN_SYSOP. That was how
 MV> long ago? Five, six years? Even then it was impossible to
 MV> "effectively" moderate it.


     The task is not impossible. It just depends on ones level of
determination. I am not minimizing what you are say Michiel. I agree
that moderating today's echos is differant than it was years back. But
I think that the task can still be done.

 DD>>>>> The "official moderator" of this echo certainly does that - I

 JS>>>>      In the last 12 months or even a year. <g>

 MV>>> This year I recieved a request from the moderator by netmail.

 JS>>      Gosh... Were you bad? <g>

 MV> Not really. I was asked to cooperate in starving an obnoxious
 MV> participant by not responding to him.


     Makes sense.

 JS>>>> How much "Moderating" has he done. Based upon behavior in the
 JS>>>> echo and Björn's lack of presence as moderator I don't see any
 JS>>>> sign of moderating having been done.

 MV>>> Have you seen me responding to any message from Frank Scheidt
 MV>>> recently?

 JS>>      You mean it wasn't you using some common sense?

 MV> No. I had already decided to no longer respond to him and he was
 MV> already in my twitt filter when the request from the moderator reached
 MV> me.

 MV> My point is that there are things going on that you do not see.


     Oh, I am sure that there is. As I have said to Björn is netmail
I don't doubt that Björn has sent out moderating netmails. My point
to him and to you is that his actions and level of activity as moderator
are having little if any visible effect on the condition of the Fidonews
echo. That IMHO is based on two possible reasons. First is that those
that are disrupting the echo have little or no respect for Björn as the
moderator. Respect is something that the moderator must earn. Secondly
is that moderator *appears* to have given up. Something that people in an
echo are quick to pickup on. It is like waving a sign that says "I DON'T
@#$%ING CARE!! HAVE AT IT!!".

 MV> Cheers,


 MV> Michiel

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 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Jeff

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