Text 4844, 295 rader
Skriven 2005-06-11 19:24:44 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 4843 av Randy (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: switching employers
===============================
From: "Rich" <@>
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People have been coming and going from everywhere I worked for as =
long as I have been working. Unless you are spinning like mike miller I =
expect you would suggest that everyone is different and makes their own =
choices for their own reasons. Maybe mike miller is projecting his own =
motivations onto others.
Rich
"Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net...
In my corner of the world we routinely 'horse-traded' amongst several =
different business-specific IT organizations-with consolidation occuring = in
the industry those opportunities became fewer and fewer as surviving = entities
relocated the work out of the area. =20
Yes, you did comment on where people went--but not WHY they left.=20
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net...
Interesting but a side topic. Despite mike miller's attempts at =
spin, I commented on where people go. I fully expect him to continue to = make
insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of the = people
about which he is making claims.
As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away =
with only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted. =
Google is close. Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are
within walking distance.
Rich
"Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net...
That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work =
environment?
While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, =
too-they don't=20
feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they aren't =
being=20
challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they don't =
like the=20
direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play the =
corporate=20
political game, they may have problems with their immediate =
manager; they=20
may have issues totally unrelated to the work....
What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software =
engineering is not=20
the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
real- threat of offshoring.
All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I =
have a SE=20
making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?
There are now reports coming out of India where call-center =
personnel are=20
leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
business with companies that have outsourced to India.
There are a lot of dynamics at play here.
"Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com...
>
> Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
>
> I agree though that they were looking for change. The Microsoft =
people
> who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant =
company
> whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing company =
that's
> just beginning.
>
> /m
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:
>
>> Interest in google is easy to explain. For people looking =
for a change=20
>> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few =
high tech=20
>> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
>> well as Microsoft does. In the past people have might have =
gone to=20
>> amazon or real or other local outfits. During the boom many =
went to=20
>> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of startups =
isn't as=20
>> popular.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>> "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
>> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of late,
>> and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent. =
Well I guess
>> that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect to =
be paid by
>> the stock market.
>>
>> /m
>=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> People have been coming =
and going from=20
everywhere I worked for as long as I have been working. Unless you =
are=20
spinning like mike miller I expect you would suggest that everyone = is=20
different and makes their own choices for their own reasons. =
Maybe=20
mike miller is projecting his own motivations onto others.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Randy" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net">news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>In my corner of the world we routinely =
'horse-traded'=20
amongst several different business-specific IT organizations-with =
consolidation occuring in the industry those opportunities became =
fewer and=20
fewer as surviving entities relocated the work out of the area. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yes, you did comment on where people went--but =
not WHY=20
they left. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net">news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Interesting but a =
side=20
topic. Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented on =
where=20
people go. I fully expect him to continue to make insinuations =
regarding why people go without him knowing any of the people about =
which he=20
is making claims.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> As for where to go, =
someone is=20
more likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute than =
1000 miles=20
away and being uprooted. Google is close. Some of my =
friends and=20
I joke about it because they are within walking =
distance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Randy" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net">news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>Th=
at=20
could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
environment?<BR><BR>While money may be a big part of it, there are =
other=20
reasons, too-they don't <BR>feel their skills are being utilized =
to their=20
fullest, they aren't being <BR>challenged, they feel they are not =
being=20
listened to, they don't like the <BR>direction the company is =
being taken,=20
they don't want to play the corporate <BR>political game, they may =
have=20
problems with their immediate manager; they <BR>may have issues =
totally=20
unrelated to the work....<BR><BR>What I think you are seeing is =
the fact=20
that now software engineering is not <BR>the glamour job it used =
to be,=20
thanks in no small part to the perceived -or <BR>real- threat of=20
offshoring.<BR><BR>All other things being equal (both tangible and =
intangible), if I have a SE <BR>making $120K here in the US, and I =
get the=20
same performance and result out <BR>of an Indian SE for $45K, what =
do you=20
do?<BR><BR>There are now reports coming out of India where =
call-center=20
personnel are <BR>leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and =
UK=20
customers transacting <BR>business with companies that have =
outsourced to=20
India.<BR><BR>There are a lot of dynamics at play=20
here.<BR><BR><BR><BR>"Mike '/m'" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>> wrote in =
message=20
<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com">news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com</A>...<BR>><BR>>=20
Soounds more like rationalization than =
explanation.<BR>><BR>> I=20
agree though that they were looking for change. The =
Microsoft=20
people<BR>> who went to Google were looking for a change, from =
a=20
stagnant company<BR>> whose best years have passed by; to a =
vibrant,=20
growing company that's<BR>> just =
beginning.<BR>><BR>> =20
/m<BR>><BR>><BR>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, =
"Rich"=20
<@> wrote:<BR>><BR>>> Interest in =
google is=20
easy to explain. For people looking for a change =
<BR>>> but do=20
not want to uproot themselves and move there are few high tech=20
<BR>>> businesses in the area particularly those that treat =
there=20
employees as <BR>>> well as Microsoft does. In the =
past people=20
have might have gone to <BR>>> amazon or real or other local =
outfits. During the boom many went to <BR>>> startups =
but you=20
see less of that now that the idea of startups isn't as =
<BR>>>=20
popular.<BR>>><BR>>>Rich<BR>>><BR>>> =
"Mike=20
'/m'" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>> wrote=20
in message <BR>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com">news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com</A>...<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>=
; =20
Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring of =
late,<BR>>> and Google becoming the destination for =
Microsoft=20
talent. Well I guess<BR>>> that happens when =
you've=20
trained your workforce to expect to be paid by<BR>>> =
the stock=20
market.<BR>>><BR>>> /m<BR>>=20
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