Text 6026, 339 rader
Skriven 2005-07-14 10:17:16 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 6016 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: eeye's irresponsible self-serving behavior
======================================================
From: "Rich" <@>
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Your car analogy is a bad one. Cars are recalled to the dealer, not =
the factory, because the consumer can't apply fixes at home. Software =
doesn't work that way.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net...
Providing copies of windows in the box that are not fully patched =
should be proof enough. If MS were a car company, they would have to = issue a
recall every time there was a critical update released.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net...
So please give an example of irresponsible pr from Microsoft. =
The 5 year old q&a to which you linked is not an example. Since you are =
trying to compare this to the irresponsible self-serving pr from eeye, = you
should find a comparable example such as providing the instructions = necessary
to create malware like that eeye provides.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net...
Microsoft doesn't promote malware, they do however use lots of =
irresponsible self-serving pr.
Stuff like this line of bullshit then taking 188 days to patch a =
remote root anonymous exploit =
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03securityqa.ms=
px
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net...
Give me example of a Microsoft pr, say a page on =
www.microsoft.com, that provides the information needed for someone to = create
malware like eeye does.
By interesting I mean intelectually interesting. As for =
understanding, I think you confuse disagreement with and understanding = of.
It's a common flaw.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net...
I don't have a problem with their self-serving irresponsible =
pr any more than I do with microsofts irresponsible self-serving pr, = that's a
hangup that seems to be unique to you.
As for interesting, you appear to be a programmer not a hacker =
so why would you find anything to do with hacking interesting? You've = proven
several times that you don't even understand the hacker mindset.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net...
You clearly buy into their self-serving irresponsible pr =
more than I do. I was a bit surprised when you stated a few messages = back
that they steal the ideas for the vulnerabilities from others and = take credit
for themselves. While they do not do much interesting, I = had at least though
it was their own. you actually lowered my opinion = of them even further.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net...
Oh give me a break, these guys single handedly destroyed =
NT's security reputation.
Hell they were the reason for the "information anarchy" =
program to silence the security lists.
Geo.=20
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net...
An extraordinary one. I suspect there isn't a =
significant difference between what they could do and what you could do =
taking advantage of published information. The only thing remarkable = about
these folks is that they publish press releases putting the public = at risk to
promote themselves for financial gain.
Rich
"John Beckett" <FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit> =
wrote in message news:rcl6d1hegtubg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com...
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:<42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net>:
> You should remember that this is true only in =
george's imagination.
Perhaps the 95% is an exaggeration. But there have =
been many examples (I
think starting with the IIS debacles) that show that =
eeye could have owned
an extremely large number of computers if Microsoft =
had not changed its
"release when it's good enough" attitude.
John
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Your car analogy is a bad =
one. =20
Cars are recalled to the dealer, not the factory, because the consumer =
can't=20
apply fixes at home. Software doesn't work that way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net">news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Providing copies of windows in the =
box that are=20
not fully patched should be proof enough. If MS were a car company, =
they would=20
have to issue a recall every time there was a critical update=20
released.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net">news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> So please give an =
example of=20
irresponsible pr from Microsoft. The 5 year old q&a to =
which you=20
linked is not an example. Since you are trying to compare this =
to the=20
irresponsible self-serving pr from eeye, you should find a =
comparable=20
example such as providing the instructions necessary to create =
malware like=20
that eeye provides.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net">news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Microsoft doesn't promote =
malware, they do=20
however use lots of irresponsible self-serving pr.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Stuff like this line of bullshit =
then taking=20
188 days to patch a remote root anonymous exploit <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03secur=
ityqa.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03s=
ecurityqa.mspx</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net">news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Give me example of =
a Microsoft pr, say a page on <A=20
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com">www.microsoft.com</A>, that =
provides the=20
information needed for someone to create malware like eeye=20
does.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> By interesting I =
mean=20
intelectually interesting. As for understanding, I think =
you=20
confuse disagreement with and understanding of. It's a =
common=20
flaw.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net">news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't have a problem with =
their=20
self-serving irresponsible pr any more than I do with =
microsofts=20
irresponsible self-serving pr, that's a hangup that seems to =
be unique=20
to you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for interesting, you =
appear to be a=20
programmer not a hacker so why would you find anything to do =
with=20
hacking interesting? You've proven several times that you =
don't even=20
understand the hacker mindset.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net">news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You clearly =
buy=20
into their self-serving irresponsible pr more than I =
do. =20
I was a bit surprised when you stated a few messages back =
that they=20
steal the ideas for the vulnerabilities from others and take =
credit=20
for themselves. While they do not do much interesting, =
I had=20
at least though it was their own. you actually lowered =
my=20
opinion of them even further.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oh give me a break, these =
guys single=20
handedly destroyed NT's security reputation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hell they were the reason =
for the=20
"information anarchy" program to silence the security =
lists.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> An =
extraordinary=20
one. I suspect there isn't a significant =
difference=20
between what they could do and what you could do =
taking=20
advantage of published information. The only thing =
remarkable about these folks is that they publish press =
releases=20
putting the public at risk to promote themselves for =
financial=20
gain.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"John Beckett" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit">FirstnameSurname@com=
puserve.com.omit</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:rcl6d1hegtubg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com">news:rcl6d1hegtu=
bg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>"Rich"=20
<@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:<42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net">news:<42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net</A>&g=
t;:<BR>> =20
You should remember that this is true only in george's =
imagination.<BR><BR>Perhaps the 95% is an =
exaggeration. But=20
there have been many examples (I<BR>think starting =
with the=20
IIS debacles) that show that eeye could have =
owned<BR>an=20
extremely large number of computers if Microsoft had =
not=20
changed its<BR>"release when it's good enough"=20
=
attitude.<BR><BR>John<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BO=
DY></HTML>
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