Text 8212, 405 rader
Skriven 2005-11-13 21:37:20 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 8206 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Windows Vista video enhancements
============================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Newshell was the preview for 3.51 yes, but the problem of iconitis = existed
with NT 4 as well at least at the beginning. In fact I don't = remember place
holder icons until W2K and while that did solve the UI = reponse time issue it
didn't stop the problem of flooding out a dialup = connection retreiving icons.

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:43779840@w3.nls.net...
     I suspect you are making references to the preview made available =
for Windows NT 3.51 not Windows NT 4.0.

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:43777bb2@w3.nls.net...
    Icon and thumbnail is async now but wasn't always that way, and even =
async sucks when you are on dialup to the remote machine.

    I'm surprised you never noticed the remote drive thing, don't you =
ever map drives and then use the machine when the remote is not = available?

    Geo.
      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4374ddbe@w3.nls.net...
         Icon and thumbnail extraction is and has been asynchronous.  I =
do not know about remote drives.  I've never noticed anything.

      Rich

        "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:4374785b$1@w3.nls.net...
        It wasn't sensitive in the newshell, it took a long time before =
they did anything about it.

        As for vista thumbnails, great, I've seen that in action in XP =
when I would open a directory full of video files and the stupid thing = would
default to thumbnail view and take 10 minutes to display the = directory.. Now
it gets extended to documents and everything else, = wonderful I can't wait.

        You know what would be helpful, if they would multithread the =
explorer so that when I open "my computer" where I have a bunch of = remote
attached drives I don't have to wait for the authentication = before it
populates the window, just show a place holder and let a = separate thread
retrieve the remote stuff while the UI responds with = what it has now. Have
they added that yet?

        Geo.
          "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:437408a4@w3.nls.net...
             You must not remember that you have complained to me about =
this many times over the years often together with silly suggestions = over how
you would optimize it.  You have probably forgotten that icon = extraction,
which is not specific to EXEs, was sensitive to link speed.

             I'm sure you will have more reason to complain since in =
Windows Vista there will be more use of thumbnails.  Today you get = thumbnails
for an image file but not a document.  In Windows Vista you = should see
thumbnails for the document too.  From =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/experience.mspx

            Thumbnails=20
            New scalable thumbnails are used throughout Windows to show =
you the actual first page for documents, the actual photo for photos, a =
screen capture for videos, and album art for individual songs. By = previewing
the actual contents of a file at a glance, you'll find what = you want more
quickly without the trial-and-error of opening files to = preview them.=20

            You'll find thumbnails in the Explorers as live icons; when =
you rest the mouse pointer over a minimized window on the Task Bar; and = when
you flip through open windows using the features codenamed "Flip" = and "Flip
3D".


          Rich


            "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:43740176@w3.nls.net...
            "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4372d15b@w3.nls.net...

            >>   Simple transparancy and alpha blending are available in =
Windows 98 and
            maybe Windows 95 and improved further in Windows 2000.  You =
can see
            screenshots of a translucent calculator at
            =
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwui/html/layerwin.asp.  LDDM = is
            more than that.<<

            Yes and it is so typical of the win9x team to go overboard =
like that. Let me
            tell you a little story.

            Back when the newshell was being done, one of the things =
that users asked
            for was better icons. They wanted to see a word doc look =
different from a
            notepad text file (remember the days of program manager/file =
manager?).
            Anyway the guys doing the newshell for win9x went overboard, =
instead of
            standard icons based on file extensions they had to allow =
different icons
            for every .exe file, you know, so notepad.exe could be a =
notepad and
            calc.exe could be a calculator.

            The result was that when you attach to a remote drive and =
open a directory,
            windows has to touch each and every stupid file to retreive =
the icon data if
            available. When newshell came out we called this effect =
iconitis because
            when done over a modem it was painfully slow. Course the =
guys who wrote and
            tested it never noticed because they were all working on the =
newest and
            fastest machines and networks so what would they care?

            How much do you want to bet the same guys worked on Glass? =
Well at least
            it's not something that can't be turned off, guess they did =
learn
            something..

            And there's more, in 1997 when I was at MS trying to give =
them some ideas, I
            described a 3D GUI where not only could you stack icons =
vertically and
            horizontally but I described how I wanted to stack them =
going back into the
            screen (perspective) so you could have a stack of rows that =
looked like a
            file cabinet drawers with just the tabs visible. Functional, =
more icons in
            less space type of stuff. Instead we get glass which =
requires more video cpu
            than is available on systems 8 years later and that stupid =
XP view where
            only 20 icons fit on a full screen open folder?

            Geo. (it's not very functional but it looks sooooooo cool... =
where is my
            2x4..)


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Newshell was the preview for 3.51 yes, =
but the=20
problem of iconitis existed with NT 4 as well at least at the beginning. = In
fact=20
I don't remember place holder icons until W2K and while that did solve = the
UI=20
reponse time issue it didn't stop the problem of flooding out a dialup=20
connection retreiving icons.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:43779840@w3.nls.net">news:43779840@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I suspect you are making =
references=20
  to the preview made available for Windows NT 3.51 not Windows NT=20
  4.0.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:43777bb2@w3.nls.net">news:43777bb2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Icon and thumbnail is async now but =
wasn't=20
    always that way, and even async sucks when you are on dialup to the =
remote=20
    machine.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm surprised you never noticed the =
remote=20
    drive thing, don't you ever map drives and then use the machine when =
the=20
    remote is not available?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:4374ddbe@w3.nls.net">news:4374ddbe@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Icon and thumbnail =
extraction is=20
      and has been asynchronous.&nbsp; I do not know about remote =
drives.&nbsp;=20
      I've never noticed anything.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
        wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:4374785b$1@w3.nls.net">news:4374785b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It wasn't sensitive in the =
newshell, it=20
        took a long time before they did anything about it.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for vista thumbnails, great, =
I've seen=20
        that in action in XP when I would open a directory full of video =
files=20
        and the stupid thing would&nbsp;default to thumbnail view and =
take 10=20
        minutes to display the directory.. Now it gets extended to =
documents and=20
        everything else, wonderful I can't wait.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You know what would be helpful, =
if they=20
        would multithread the explorer so that when I open "my computer" =
where I=20
        have a bunch of remote attached drives I don't have to wait for =
the=20
        authentication before it populates the window, just show a place =
holder=20
        and let a separate thread retrieve the remote stuff while the UI =

        responds with what it has now. Have they added that =
yet?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:437408a4@w3.nls.net">news:437408a4@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You must not =
remember that=20
          you have complained to me about this many times over the years =
often=20
          together with silly suggestions over how you would optimize =
it.&nbsp;=20
          You have probably forgotten that icon extraction, which is not =

          specific to EXEs, was sensitive to link speed.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm sure you =
will have more=20
          reason to complain since in Windows Vista there will be more =
use of=20
          thumbnails.&nbsp; Today you get thumbnails for an image file =
but not a=20
          document.&nbsp; In Windows Vista you should see thumbnails for =
the=20
          document too.&nbsp; From <A=20
          =
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/experience.mspx">http://www=
.microsoft.com/windowsvista/experience.mspx</A></FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
            <H3><FONT color=3D#008000>Thumbnails </FONT><A=20
            name=3DThumbnails></A></H3>
            <P><FONT color=3D#008000>New scalable thumbnails are used =
throughout=20
            Windows to show you the actual first page for documents, the =
actual=20
            photo for photos, a screen capture for videos, and album art =
for=20
            individual songs. By previewing the actual contents of a =
file at a=20
            glance, you'll find what you want more quickly without the=20
            trial-and-error of opening files to preview them. =
</FONT></P>
            <P><FONT color=3D#008000>You'll find thumbnails in the =
Explorers as=20
            live icons; when you rest the mouse pointer over a minimized =
window=20
            on the Task Bar; and when you flip through open windows =
using the=20
            features codenamed "Flip" and "Flip=20
          3D".</FONT></P></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
            href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
            message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:43740176@w3.nls.net">news:43740176@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>"R=
ich"=20
            &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:4372d15b@w3.nls.net">news:4372d15b@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR><BR>=
&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
            Simple transparancy and alpha blending are available in =
Windows 98=20
            and<BR>maybe Windows 95 and improved further in Windows =
2000.&nbsp;=20
            You can see<BR>screenshots of a translucent calculator =
at<BR><A=20
            =
href=3D"http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwui/html/layerwin.asp">=
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwui/html/layerwin.asp</A>.&nbsp=
;=20
            LDDM is<BR>more than that.&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>Yes and it is so =
typical=20
            of the win9x team to go overboard like that. Let me<BR>tell =
you a=20
            little story.<BR><BR>Back when the newshell was being done, =
one of=20
            the things that users asked<BR>for was better icons. They =
wanted to=20
            see a word doc look different from a<BR>notepad text file =
(remember=20
            the days of program manager/file manager?).<BR>Anyway the =
guys doing=20
            the newshell for win9x went overboard, instead =
of<BR>standard icons=20
            based on file extensions they had to allow different =
icons<BR>for=20
            every .exe file, you know, so notepad.exe could be a notepad =

            and<BR>calc.exe could be a calculator.<BR><BR>The result was =
that=20
            when you attach to a remote drive and open a =
directory,<BR>windows=20
            has to touch each and every stupid file to retreive the icon =
data=20
            if<BR>available. When newshell came out we called this =
effect=20
            iconitis because<BR>when done over a modem it was painfully =
slow.=20
            Course the guys who wrote and<BR>tested it never noticed =
because=20
            they were all working on the newest and<BR>fastest machines =
and=20
            networks so what would they care?<BR><BR>How much do you =
want to bet=20
            the same guys worked on Glass? Well at least<BR>it's not =
something=20
            that can't be turned off, guess they did=20
            learn<BR>something..<BR><BR>And there's more, in 1997 when I =
was at=20
            MS trying to give them some ideas, I<BR>described a 3D GUI =
where not=20
            only could you stack icons vertically and<BR>horizontally =
but I=20
            described how I wanted to stack them going back into =
the<BR>screen=20
            (perspective) so you could have a stack of rows that looked =
like=20
            a<BR>file cabinet drawers with just the tabs visible. =
Functional,=20
            more icons in<BR>less space type of stuff. Instead we get =
glass=20
            which requires more video cpu<BR>than is available on =
systems 8=20
            years later and that stupid XP view where<BR>only 20 icons =
fit on a=20
            full screen open folder?<BR><BR>Geo. (it's not very =
functional but=20
            it looks sooooooo cool... where is=20
        =
my<BR>2x4..)<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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