Text 3127, 135 rader
Skriven 2006-07-02 12:03:00 av Robert E Starr JR (3600.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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* * * This message was from Amy Guskin to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
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@MSGID: <0001HW.C0CCB65604EB0712F0407530@news.verizon.net>
@REPLY: <qv3p82l5efiuo3tnh9t68sh5udanal89f4@4ax.com>
>>On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:00:55 -0400, Carl wrote
(in article <jvKdnZ88s8t0qzrZnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com>):

> 
> "Amy Guskin" <aisling@fjordstone.com> wrote in message 
> news:0001HW.C0CC9FEA04E5C5E0F0407530@news.verizon.net...
> 
> Snip about Dean.  I have quotes where he uses the terms racist, homophobic, 
> book burning sexists. Not really important.  He's called Republicans "evil."
> 
> "This is a struggle of good and evil. And we're [democrats] the good." <<

Yeah, well if that's the worst you can come up with for Dean, I repeat, he is 
not in the same class as that media whore C_____r.

>> "Evil" is a particularly disgusting word to use.  It goes beyond methodology


> and says that Republicans are trying to intentionally hurt people. That (to 
> me) goes far beyond the kind of rhetoric that I personally find acceptable, 
> and equate that kind of hatred with Coulter. <<

It's just not a really powerful statement, as far as proof that Dean is 
remotely in the same class as C_____r.  Sorry.  If that was all C_____r had 
ever said about liberals - "This is a struggle of good and evil, and we're 
the good" - there'd be nothing to be upset about with her.

>>>>> I mean, I feel like I have to go and _wash_ after reading that.  If this
>> were an isolated incident, a verbal faux pas, it would be one thing.  But 
>> it
>> isn't.  And she had plenty of opportunities to take it back, too - 
>> everyone
>> who's interviewed her in recent weeks has asked her about it, and given 
>> her
>> the opportunity.  Not only hasn't she taken it back; she added the divorce
>> comment after standing by her initial comment.
>> 
>> Honestly, can you find _anything_ Dean has _ever_ said that even 
>> _approaches_
>> that level of unfounded malevolence?
> 
> Coulter goes way out of her way to say that stuff to sell books and generate 
> publicity.  It's gotten her on television shows, including the Tonight Show. 
> Dean has to muzzle his (admitted) hatred because of his position... but his 
> comments show the same level of hatred for the other side. <<

Disagreed, entirely.  Seriously, you simply cannot equate those two.

>>> The fact that you didn't know about Pelosi suggests  that either you 
weren't 
> looking for misdeeds of Democrats with an equal zeal as you do of 
> Republicans, or that the media that you pay attention to doesn't cover it 
> with equal zeal.  I did post a link elsewhere on the story.  I believe fines 
> were already imposed. <<

That's a spurious argument.  I can't read every news item every day, but that 
doesn't mean that my news sources aren't carrying the information.  It means 
that I choose to read headlines that catch my attention.  For instance, both 
on Huffington Post and Air America Radio I heard _plenty_ about Jefferson's 
misdeeds.  That's one that happened to catch my attention.

>>>>> These weren't sideline players in the Dem party.  The
>>> examples cited were the current and former Dem leaders of the house and
>>> Senate, as well as the current presumptive Presidential nominee 
>>> (Clinton). <<
>> 
>> Whoa, Nellie.  She's not _my_ current presumptive Presidential nominee.
> 
> I was speaking of most of the press and polls.  I wasn't assuming your 
> preference. :)
> I hope you know that I would never presume to speak for you. :) <<

I'll have to take a look and see what the polls are actually saying - Zogby's 
asked me now several times who I want as a candidate in '08, and I've never 
chosen Hillary, and most of my liberal friends aren't particularly interested 
in seeing her as a candidate, either.

>>>>>> I go back to my original comment... Dems are no better or worse than the
>>> GOP.  When I say this I am speaking of their behavior in power.  There is
>>> nothing about being a Dem or a Rep that makes one inherently a better
>>> person.  Does anyone here really think that they are a better person than
>>> someone because of how they interpret (usually one or two) political
>>> issues? <<
>> 
>> We'll have to agree to disagree.  I think that people who believe in
>> Democratic ideals - most of the country, by any poll you can name - are in
>> general more in line with the ideals of a civilized, kind humanity.
> 
> Hmmm.  I'm tempted to take this one up too, but I thnk it best not to.
> 
> I will simply say that I think you mistake a difference in methodology with 
> a difference of intent.  To the degree that you believe a common message the 
> Republicans (or Independents :)) don't care about people, then you've bought 
> into a smear campaign as big as those on the right. <<

By saying that I "believe a common message," I believe you've insulted me, 
Carl.  :-)  You're saying that you don't think I'm smart enough to read 
materials from all sides of the political spectrum and make my own 
independent conclusions,

>> Very few people think of their views as evil or bad.  <<

But just because they don't, doesn't mean they _aren't_.  I think it's JMS 
who said that the monster never sees a monster in the mirror.  That doesn't 
make him _not a monster_.

>>   When people 
> understand that, they will stop villiying other people.  That was not 
> directed at you. :)
> 
>> But even
>> aside from the general ideals issue, I think that the current crop of
>> Republican representatives, and the folks in the administration, are by 
>> and
>> large a corrupt and deceitful lot, just not good people.
> 
> Leaving aside the bribery and corruption on both sides...
> You think Republicans don't love their children, kick their dogs and 
> collectively worship satan? <<

No, I never said that, but people can love their children, pet their dogs, 
and worship God and still be bad people.  Look at Abramoff.  And frankly, 
while we're on the subject (and bringing this back to topic), people can be 
atheists and still be good people, too!

Amy
                                            
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