Text 913, 88 rader
Skriven 2006-05-29 13:01:00 av Robert E Starr JR (1359.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:32:47 +0000 (UTC), "Carl"
<cengman7@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I don't think that you have to "evolve" beyond religion, politics, etc. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I see exactly that as
fundamental and crucial to the survival of us as a species and all
those other species on the planet we will take with us during our exit
fall.

>There's nothing wrong with a belief system as long as you don't try to 
>impose yours on me and I don't try to impose mine on you.  We're never going 
>to completely agree on everything, nor would it be healthy for us to do so.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. [It is my belief that] We only
have a limited amount of time left when we can afford the luxury of an
overly self-centred existence. "I" *has* to have a limited shelf life
now. We are going to have to ditch all of that and start becoming a
lot more wider-focused. In between AIDS, assorted health pandemics,
global warming and various energy crises that are here or looming, the
"I'm alright Jack" approach to existence is an evolutionary dead end.

The sooner we all realise we're in this mess together and start
thinking together and equally about resolving it the better.

Sadly, I doubt we're capable of it to any meaningful degree outside of
fiction. There are too many people too entrenched in their separate
powerbases to allow such a utopia to exist. "We're all equal, but I'm
more equal than you are" to paraphrase someone who knew a lot about
the topic.

>People need to understand that the the people on the "other" side of any 
>fence may have good reasons for being there.  We might disagree with them, 
>but that doesn't make the reasons invalid or the other person bsd or even 
>wrong".   Their reasons are every bit as compelling (from their side) as 
>ours are for us....and there aren't going to be many instances in which even 
>two people are always going to be on the same side of the fence across 
>multiple issues.  The same people on the other side of one fence on one 
>issue might be on your side when it comes to another issue.

Fences are great. Kinda like levees. Nature has a way of dealing with
fences! Much better not to have them - or need them - and to be in
tune with Nature in the first place.

>I don't necessarily blame any particular power base.  People need to make up 
>their own mind rather than relinquishing their right to having their own 
>opinions.  A power structure will always take advantage of the people that 
>let them.

Absolutely. It takes a considerable amount of strength to withstand
the power structures. In between the onslaughts of media, politics,
religion and commerce, the forces reigned against individual thought
and action are immense. It's also insidious - quite frequently those
collections of people who consider themselves lucky to have a lot of
individual freedom are among those with least. They just don't know
it.

Usually when such an individual (or group of individuals [I am aware
of the oxymoron here]) is detected, the entrenched powerbases take
active steps to convert, remove or destroy them. 

>Even that power structure will usually think they are doing 
>something for the benefit of those people.  Everyone rationalizes their own 
>views.

That's the PR view of powerbases: "We're doing it for you, honest".
The reality from within the oligarchies is somewhet different.

Sadly, the Peter Principle holds as true today as it did when the book
was written, which is why we're in such a mess. They're powerful,
ambitious.... and incompetent.

Paul.
-- 
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