Text 687, 74 rader
Skriven 2004-11-07 21:59:00 av Tomhendricks474 (1:278/230)
Ärende: Re: Metabolism Forced
=============================


<< > I think we can agree that some type of energy has to move the
> chemical processes that lead to life - agreed?

Moreso it must be some form of energy that breaks chemical bonds to
produce highly active fragments that spontaneously initiate a variety
of new chemical reactions. It isn't sufficient to have merely low-level
energy that simply warms water to make it evaporate so that it can
condense later where the energy isn't so abundant, which may
concentrate some stable chemicals one place or another, but which tends
to damp down to an equilibrium chemical mixture with no interesting
chemical reactions whatsoever happening. Will you agree to that?


TH
I certainly do. 
And in that regard - one might note how limited
the HZ or habitable zone for a planet is. IF UV is
necessarry, and I think it is, too far out from the
sun will not work.

> darwinian evolution demands a replicator and an energy user - but
> there is really no reason why that would happen  or start up except
> by luck.

Chemical reactions that consume chemical energy are very common, no
problem with them. Take just about any ionizing source such as UV or
electric spark, apply it to just about any molecular species, even
oxygen or water vapor, and watch how the resultant ions etc. cause
chemical reactions to occur in just about any substance you expose to
those ions etc. Do you agree?

TH
Yes, Now take that energy source away. Does
the chemistry keep on going - at the origin?
Let's put all this where the temp keeps increasing
till its as hot as the sun - still same chem reactions?
Do you agree it is NOT.

Or keep cooling it below liquid water down to Absolute
zero - chem reactions still working? 
Do you agree it is NOT.

Then everything must be within the temp range of
liquid water 0-100C.  To do that we have to have
some energy imput that non randomly keeps the temp
at that temp zone. If so chem reactions still working?
Do you agree that they are?


The only question is whether in a huge mix of Miller-Urey gunk, running
on a large scale for hundreds of millions of years, a replicator
eventually forms.

TH
Powered by what- how much power - cyclical or
non random - can the power stop and the chem
processes continue? 
IOW that is far from the only question.


 (Or as I speculated in another thread a few minutes
ago, perhaps in just a few hours in the classic experiment some
replicator already formed and was responsible for the formation of
amino acids etc. that Miller&Urey observed.)
 >>
---
ū RIMEGate(tm)/RGXPost V1.14 at BBSWORLD * Info@bbsworld.com

---
 * RIMEGate(tm)V10.2á˙* RelayNet(tm) NNTP Gateway * MoonDog BBS
 * RgateImp.MoonDog.BBS at 11/7/04 9:59:05 PM
 * Origin: MoonDog BBS, Brooklyn,NY, 718 692-2498, 1:278/230 (1:278/230)