Text 10389, 197 rader
Skriven 2005-03-15 09:35:18 av mark lewis (1:3634/12)
Kommentar till text 7058 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: FidoNews 22:08 [00/06]: The Front Page
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ml>>>>>> what is so hard about seeing that relationship in the
ml>>>>>> analogies of "spider", "crawl" and "web"???
MvdV>>>>> You keep forgetting - or ignoring - that I am not a
MvdV>>>>> native English speaker.
ml>>>> i'm not forgetting or ignoring... that doesn't even come
ml>>>> into the picture, in my mind...
MvdV>>> So you won't even acknowledge that their might be a problem.
ml>> i didn't say that...
MvdV> Yes you did, see below.
where?? i have never stated that i was not or would "not even acknowledge that
their[sic] might be a problem"...
ml>> this particular case isn't so hard that one cannot figure out what is
ml>> being said...
MvdV> You have no way of knowing how difficult it is for a non
MvdV> native speaker.
your flawed opinion based on the fact that you don't know what i know <<shrug>>
MvdV>>> Ypu obviously have no idea what problems a non native English
MvdV>>> speaker can run into.
ml>> likely true... i can only try to explain when asked in a
ml>> _non-combative_ manner... too many don't seem to think about that
ml>> aspect, though... they'd rather jump out with all guns blazing...
MvdV> Well, let us recapitulate: You asked "Is spamming legal, is
MvdV> e-mail harvesting, is web spidering?" to which I answered No,
MvdV> No, what is web spidering?"
MvdV> And instead of just asnwering the question you started to
MvdV> betlittle me over my ignorance. Now who is lookong for combat?
you are forgetting all the other combative messages that you were writting at
that time... they, too, play a part... how was i to tell if you were being
sincere in asking that question and not trying to set me up for something??
you're as good for that as anyone else... myself included, _at times_...
MvdV>>>>> So associations work different in different langages.
MvdV>>>>> "Spidering" is not a word I know and that I can find in a
MvdV>>>>> dictionary.
ml>>>> shouldn't matter...
MvdV>>> But it does and your opinion that it shouldn't is not
MvdV>>> goint to alter the fact that it does.
ml>> why does it matter that you cannot locate the term in a dictionary?
MvdV> Because I have no other way of knowing what it means. Other
MvdV> than asking a native speaker, but if he won't anser...
you have the entire internet at your disposal!! don't give me that crap! i
_know_ better as do you and everyone else reading this echo... to try to play
that card is to try to play stupid and ignorant and to try to play others as
stupid and ignorant...
ml>> there are many words that i cannot locate in a dictionary on any
ml>> given day... doesn't prevent me from figuring out what is being
ml>> discussed and even participating...
MvdV> True. After all that is how people learn their native
MvdV> language. But to infer the meaning of a word one has to see or
MvdV> hear it many times in context. And even then it is risky
MvdV> bussines, one may arrive at the wrong conclusion. It takes
MvdV> kids years to properly learn a language and the ability to
MvdV> pick up a new langauage fades with the years.
ml>>>> you've a brain and are a smart individual... you
ml>>>> should be able to derive the meaning of the word...
MvdV> Getting the meaning of a word from a single occurence is just
MvdV> not possible.
bovine feces... remember, we're not talking about totally groking a word...
just being able to understand it in the context it is used in...
MvdV>>> But the fact is that I am not. And don't think I am the
MvdV>>> exception. Every non native English speaker has that problem.
ml>> please, stop with the "non native english speaker" argument...
MvdV> See... you won't hear of it.
because i _know_ that you are smarter than that even though you try to play
like you are not... you are trying to play me and others as stupid with this
type of argument and i'm not playing it... you're job, alone, shows that you
are not stupid or ignorant and that you do have a good command of language and
learning ability... don't play stupid with me!
ml>> taught numerous languages as a matter of course in normal
ml>> schooling... in the US, "alternative" languages are generally
ml>> electives and not required... i've never taken any language courses
ml>> other than english and then only when forced to by the curiculum...
MvdV> So you really have no idea what you are talking about when it
MvdV> comes to foreign languages and non native speakers.
MvdV>>>>> "Web" can mean a variety of things,
ml>>>> hunh?
MvdV>>> Consult a dictionary. My TSOD gives some two dozens meanings
MvdV>>> for "web". Only theree or four are associtaed with spiders.
ml>> yeah, so...
MvdV> So why would I associate "web" with "spider".
the base of the word is "spider", that's the first place to start...
ml>> the terms in discussion are about spiders
MvdV> Where did "spider" come in? You mentioned "spidering". Why
MvdV> would I - as a non native English speaker - asscociate that
MvdV> with "spider"?
the base of the word is "spider", that's the first place to start...
ml>> so those related to spiders are those that you should be
ml>> concerned with in this discussion...
MvdV> Circular reasoning. To make the association with "spider" I
MvdV> should first make the associataion with "spider". And as long
that's your own fault for playing stupid and not looking at the base of the
word to derive where it comes from and then to also deduce what is/was being
discussed... maybe it is cognitive abilities that you sorely lack??
MvdV> as I have not made that association - and there was no
MvdV> particular reason why I should - there is no reason to focus
MvdV> on those meanings of "web" associated with "spider".
the base of the word is "spider", that's the first place to start...
MvdV>>>>> so why should I associate the word wide web with a spider
MvdV>>>>> crawling ?
ml>>>> because it has been being used like that for over ten years??
MvdV>>> Never heard it before you brouht it up.
ml>> sorry... i didn't realize that today's common and widespread
ml>> technology is such a sheltered subject...
MvdV> What you fail to realize - AGAIN - is that I am not a native
MvdV> English speaker. Books and newspapers in this part of the
MvdV> world are in Ducth, not in English. The fact is that I have
MvdV> never heard the term "web spidering" before you brought it up.
MvdV> And that has nothing to do with my level of knowledge of the
MvdV> technology, but all with the fact that I live in a society
MvdV> where Dutch and not English is the language of the day.
that's still all beside the point and that point being that the terminology has
been in widespread use for over ten years... i cannot help it that you have led
a sheltered life and not been out there and involved in this stuff and yet you
blame me for not recognizing that you are not a native english speaker rather
than to take the blame yourself for not getting out there and learning about
it... are you trying to play me for a fool or are yo usimply unable to
acknowledge that you are to blame for your own lack of knowledge, attitude, and
inabilities?
MvdV>>>>> To you as a native English speaker the association may be
MvdV>>>>> obvious, to me it is not.
ml>>>> no, i learned the association over ten years ago when it was first
ml>>>> started being used...
MvdV>>> Not in my language.
ml>> please stop it with the language mess... you're smarter than that and
ml>> we all know it...
MvdV> It is nu use trying to explain it to you.
MvdV> Go to a country where they don't speak English and see how far
MvdV> you get with figuring out what they mean when they speak to
MvdV> you...
been there, done that... t'was a bit rough in the beginning but nothing that
wasn't able to be overcome... turkish and japanese were to other languages that
i spoke and there was a time that i spoke them better than english... oh, and i
leraned them on my own, too... not from some school ;)
again, you don't know what i know yet you try to play me like you do know what
i know...
)\/(ark
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
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