Text 14535, 138 rader
Skriven 2005-10-10 16:28:35 av Raymond Yates (1:3613/48)
  Kommentar till text 14516 av Roy Witt (1:1/22)
Ärende: forever in debt
=======================
 RW> 09 Oct 05 23:00, Raymond Yates wrote to Roy Witt:


 RW>>> 09 Oct 05 00:53, Raymond Yates wrote to Roy Witt:


 RW>>>>> Personally, I went there and read it with an open mind. I
 RW>>>>> didn't like it either for several reasons. #1 was that it's a
 RW>>>>> 23% federal sales tax.

 RY>>>> Which replaces the 22% you are paying now..

 RW>>> I think that depends on what you buy. Groceries aren't taxed,
 RW>>> but household things like detergents are. Food is only taxed if
 RW>>> you eat in a restaurant. Clothes are only subject to state sales
 RW>>> tax...that's about 8% or 6.25% here if it's school related
 RW>>> expenditures. So, I see this as a tax raise, not a savings.

 RY>> Perhaps it would help of you think of it as a replacement..

 RW> If it replaced the state sales and income taxes, I might.

That's possible within the state, /IF/ the people make it happen. The
expectation is that the states will see what a neat idea this is, and follow
suit. True that might not happen, but you never know..

 RW>>>>> However, you can spend up to the level they consider the
 RW>>>>> poverty level before you pay tax.
 RY>>>> And you get a check back for that each month...
 RW>>> That seems to me like just more un-necessary paperwork.

 RY>> Not really, no it's all computerised. the government prints
 RY>> millions of checks alredy, so what's a few more? also a lot of it
 RY>> will be EFT..

 RW> A few more? I see more than just a few more in our future if it
 RW> passes. Sheeesh, what a nitemare it would be. Nice business for the
 RW> Post Office though.

For some, yes. What's been suggested is a "Prebate card" like a debit card,
that gets reloaded monthly. use it until it's exhausted, then wait for it to
be reloaded, wich would happen on the indicated day. all done electronically,
like the Food Stamp card.  THe alternitave is requiring the household to have
a bank account and the funds direct depositied, like they do for Social
Security.  That's not nearly as bad..

 RW>>>>> But, top that with a 8% state sales tax and federal, what 15%,
 RW>>>>> 20% - luxury tax on that $25k car and you've got a whopper of
 RW>>>>> a price tag. If you didn't pay cash for it, you'd be upside
 RW>>>>> down in it for the remainder of the loan (now 6y).

 RY>>>> Luxury tax goes away.

 RW>>> Sure, because it's a federal tax. What about the state sales
 RW>>> tax?

 RY>> Still have that, that's a state's problem. might change that too
 RY>> if the Federal thing works out, though. That'd be nice.

 RW> That'd be nice if they changed that 'before' this thing gets passed. I
 RW> don't see it happening either way though.

Well, we'll see. AFAICT most of the opposition to the plan at the moment is
based on either deliberate misinformation or ignorance. People are sending
thier Congresscritters copies of the book.. That is a good sign, considering
that it's a hard-cover.

 RY>>>> Also, remember you have more money to start with, like 100% of
 RY>>>> your paycheck.

 RW>>> I'm not impressed. That means that people will feel like they've
 RW>>> got a lot of extra cash, and so they'll spend it like they do,
 RW>>> thus paying even more taxes and not saving anything for their
 RW>>> later years.

 RY>> Or, not.

 RW> Most likely.

That becomes their problem then, right? People (in my opinion) should have the
right to do Stupid. To offset that, you know this will fund Social
Security so that it does not fail? That too is not a bad thing.

 RY>> One of the groups that is against the Fairtax is the National
 RY>> Association of Retailers, based on the perception that people
 RY>> will be encouraged to save.. which would be bad for thier
 RY>> members.

 RW> I hate to sound like a liberal here, but how can they have an
 RW> incentive to save, when they have all that extra cash laying around?
 RW> Most will spend it like there's no tomorrow.

Probably so, sadly. but that what the Association is worried about, that
people will go against their consumer-indoctrination. It's a funny stance,
considering that the businesses will make a slight profit in the added revenue
for collecting the Tax.

 RW>>>>> I liked the flat tax they proposed at 15% all around, better,
 RW>>>>> but it didn't have the 'poverty' clause.

 RY>>>> Also had tons of exclusions that the K Street boys liked as it
 RY>>>> kept them in business (that's the tax lobbyists they make six
 RY>>>> figures stealing your money)

 RW>>> Probably. The other alternative to that one was a national sales
 RW>>> tax, similar to this one, but with a lower rate. 15%...
 RW>>>>> Maybe the best part of either is that there's no more paper
 RW>>>>> work for John Q Public...just the merchant, and he's already
 RW>>>>> doing sales tax returns every quarter, so what's a few more
 RW>>>>> hours going to hurt?
 RY>>>> Not even that, it's automated.

 RW> Maybe for the big time retailer, but the small business person, such
 RW> as one who doesn't do buisness in retail, will still be doing it by
 RW> hand. The costs of doing otherwise is far too high.

 RW>>> That hasn't been my experience. When I first started out in my
 RW>>> own business, it was all done by hand...sure you can get
 RW>>> computer software to make it easier and even buy cash registers
 RW>>> that figure all that out for you, but you still have to have
 RW>>> someone with hands on to pay those taxes. And they fine you if
 RW>>> you're late or mis-figure your tax. I eventually turned in my
 RW>>> resale tax license and only charged my customers for the labor
 RW>>> used to 'improve' their materials. If I had to go out and buy
 RW>>> it, I'd pay the tax then and there. Let somebody else do their
 RW>>> bidding.

OK, I can see the sense in that.

 RY>> Did I mention that a small portion of the tax collected the
 RY>> business get to keep? For the cost of doing all that work..

 RW> LOL! That'll be the day...

All I can tell you is that's the current plan..

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 * Origin: Ray's Rocket Shop - Out to Launch (1:3613/48)