Text 15497, 129 rader
Skriven 2005-11-07 15:10:02 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Björn Forsström (2:203/614.61)
Ärende: Fog lights
==================
 MvdV>> It may not make much difference if you have a Hummer, but for
 MvdV>> the fuel efficient moderate sized European cars, 100 Watts of
 MvdV>> electricity makes a substantial difference to the fuel
 MvdV>> consumption. Let the engine run stationary and then turn
 MvdV>> on the headlights. You can *hear* the engines's rpm drop.

 > If you by "stationary" mean idle, sure.

I meant, gear in neutral and foor off the pedal.

 > At 750 rpm the generaror isn't loading fully but in a sec or two
 > it have returned to 750.

Not with my car. The drop remains as long as the lights remain on.

 > Then we can discuss what a "moderate sized European" is. I
 > would say that that's a Renault, Peugeot or Opel

I say my Volvo 345 is moderate sized.

 > and not a Fiat Panda or any of this moving telephone-boxes

Those small cars happen to be very popular here....

 > and with all those there isn't a problem with 100 W.

I didn't say coming up with an extra 100 Watt is a problem in the sense that
the generator can not deliver. What I said is that it has a noticible effect on
fuel consumption.

An hour drive with the lights on will cost you an extra 0.1 liter of gasoline.
You may think that is not much but with these escalating fuel prices, it will
make many people think twice.

I have chaged the wiring of my car so I can drive without the lights always on.
I think driving with the light on in clear daylight is ridiculous and a waste
of energy.

Bedides, I want an extra 10 Amp available for the fridge in my caravan and
another 20 amp to charge the battery in the caravan after a night camping in
the wild.

 > Did you know that when you make a cold-start here even the
 > biggest cars have a negative energy-balance? And that means
 > that the engine have to take power from the battery to make
 > everything work.

Not my car...

 > Not even the 150 A generator is enough to heat all seats, mirrors
 > and windows, fans and all electrical stuff the first ten
 > minutes or so, so 10 A when all this have turned off isn't
 > much to talk about.

We are talking energy consumption, not generator capacity.

 > And to compensate the bad light most cars have extra fog-light
 > and extra head lamps anyway

Front fog lights used to be popular here in the sixties and seventees. Nice
Xmas present for dad. But these days one hardly sees them any more. Must be
because the circumstances where they are usefull hardly occur any more.

Same for double head lights. Hardly usefull as one may only use them when there
is no one else within reach of the beam. And that is rere these days...

 > so why not use this on "real" light from the beginning.

Because a 3 dB increase in light has little or no noticible effect and is just
a waste of energy.

 > And then I don't know about those new "blue" light

Illegal here.

 > (have forgotten the namn right now) but they are working at
 > 35 000 V

Hmmm... you wouldn'lt happen to be a lawyer would you? ;-)

 > or so and those must take about 100 W each so where's the problem?

See above.

 MvdV>> I think not burning the extra oil will save more lives in the
 MvdV>> long run than having more light all the time as more light will
 MvdV>> have no measurable effect on the accident statistics. The human
 MvdV>> eye works logarithmic. It can easely adapt to light conditions
 MvdV>> varying a million fold in intensity. Merely doubling the
 MvdV>> light intensity is nothing.

 > Why are we then having this new "blue" light then? Do you say
 > that this is shit?

Yes, it is a fad. The blue lights are not optimal for human vision but it is
more blinding when they come towards you. It is a fad that will blow over.

 MvdV>> I have noticed that when some politician who wants to make
 MvdV>> history once more proposes some silly rule like having the
 MvdV>> lights on at all times or using seat belts on the back seat,
 MvdV>> they always claim it will save 30 lives a year (In the Netherlands).

 > It sure as hell have saved lives here.

I have yet to see a statitstic that proved that carrying lights on a clear
sunny day saves lives. Same for back seat belts.

And keep in mind that statistics are easely manipulated.

In case of the lights one must also count the accidents with bicycles who's 3
Watt lamp gets drowned in the glare of 100 Watt...

In fact I advocate the reintroduction of the so called city lights for cars.

 MvdV>> It is always 30. Never 100, never 10. The always claim 30
 MvdV>> lives a year. (For The Netherlands).

 > That's your problem.

Manipulation by politicians is everybody's problem I'd say.

Cheers, Michiel


 > ---
 >  * Origin: . (2:203/614.61)

---
 * Origin: http://www.vlist.nodelist.org (2:280/5555)