Text 25656, 117 rader
Skriven 2006-02-18 17:31:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 25652 av Frank Vest (1:124/6308.1)
Ärende: Elist
=============
Hello Frank,


 >> That many choose not to use it does not make it a Z1 only list.

 Mv>> But the fact that it was created after the Z1-Z2 merged list
 Mv>> failed did. We were back at the situation with a list FOR Z1
 Mv>> and a list FOR Z2.

 > Did the Z2 list accept listings from other than Z2?

I do not recall. It may have.

 > If so, then it was not a Z2 list except in the respect that it
 > is based in Z2.

It is a Z2 list per Echopol1 II-10 and III-4 and 5.

 > That is all I'm saying. The claim seems to be that the Elist is
 > a Z1 only list and handles only Z1 echos.

No, that is not the claim.

 > When confronted with the statement that this is not true, all
 > kinds of excuses and crap ensue from all sides to prove each
 > other wrong. Most of it is pure shit, but that doesn't stop anyone.

It is the other way around: You guys claim it is more than a Z1 list. I reject
that claim.

 > The elist is an elist. It is not the Z1 elist. It is
 > administered by a Sysop in Z1. That is all.

So you claim. I reject that claim.

 Mv>>  Mv>> The benefits do not outweigh the problems resulting from abuse.

 >> There's that fear again.

 Mv>> It is more than fear. It is the certain knowledge that it HAS been
 Mv>> abused and the near certainty that it will be abused again.

 > It is certain knowledge that the *Cs will try to abuse their
 > position and that other things will be abused.. I suppose we
 > should do away with all structure and become isolationists?

The difference is that we need the *C's to maintain the nodelist. We do not
need an echolist.

 > Amazing what fear can do and has done to Z2.

Amazing how far Z1'ers will go into talking us into something we say we do not
need.

 >> Perhaps all echos should go to private distribution due to fear?

 Mv>> From my point of view all echos ARE privately distributed now.
 Mv>> In the past we had Cost Sharing Organizations who distributed
 Mv>> echomail, but now that there is no cost of any significance left,
 Mv>> we distribute echo privately. All the echomail links that I
 Mv>> have are on a private sysop to sysop basis.

 > But the echos are public. Play the word games. It's ok.

There are a few excaptions such as sysop only echos andthe FTSC echos, but
indeed most are available to every fidonet participant. Availability has
nothing to do with how it is distributed.

>> Perhaps Z2 should be broken down into separate Zones?...

 Mv>> What good would that do? Create more *C jobs?

 > Prevent the language problems that Z2 has per your claims.

I fail to see how that would make any difference.

 >> No... that would take away the brag of being the largest Zone
 >> and you all couldn't handle that, now could you?

 Mv>> C'mon Frank, zone bashing is not your style.

 > Bashing is the style of this echo.

You adapt so easily to the way of the masses? Do you run red lights just
because some of your neighbours do?

 > One of the first things that I heard when I turned the Fidonews
 > over to Björn was how Z2 could finally have its revenge for all
 > the Z1 abuse.

Really?

 > Wow. That made me feel good.

Why?

 > Then all of Z2 and other Zones start in and have continued
 > since. How much revenge do you all need? I suppose that since
 > Z1 has abused all the rest of Fidonet for 20 years, the rest of
 > fidonet should abuse Z1 for the next 40 years. That sounds about
 > right. :(

Had a bad day didn't you?

 Mv>> --- Buy Danish

 > Yeah.

 > --- Buy American. If there was such a thing! :(

Indeed, very few American products on the shelves of the supermarket these
days...

Cheers, Michiel

--- Buy Danish
 * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)