Text 36679, 217 rader
Skriven 2006-08-13 16:23:00 av BOB KLAHN (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av ROSS CASSELL
Ärende: Hezbolla
================
 RC> Hello BOB!

 RC> 12 Aug 06 16:47, you wrote to me:

 RC>>> From the August 4th edition of a newsletter put out by a
 RC>>> local talk radio host..

 RC>>> Israel v. Hezbollah for dummies
 RC>>> Ralph Bristol
 RC>>> August 4, 2006

 BK>>  In which he proves himself a simplistic dummy.

 RC> He is a talk show host, he opines to spark debate between
 RC> him and his audience.

 That's isn't how he expressed it. He expressed it as his
 position. It may be his commercial opinion, as in for his on air
 personna, but not his true belief. To me that's just the
 difference between a slut and a whore, one does it for money,
 the other does it just cause it's her(his) nature.

 RC> He is the 3-6pm weekday host, he sends out the newsletter
 RC> daily which is a synopsis of the topics he plans to cover
 RC> that day.

 What you posted was not a synopsis, it was a position.

 RC> This host is not a Conservative, he is libertarian, yet you

 Your point? I was rebutting what he said, whether conservative,
 libertarian, or pastafarian, he was wrong.

 RC> got your mentally retarded liberal panties all twisted in a
 RC> wad.. Typical of you Klahn.

 Injustice and fraud and deception and lies has a negative effect
 on me. People who spread hate on the basis of lies have a
 negative effect on me.

 Perhaps you are too morally retarded to understand that.

 RC> You are a pathetic little man who is an anti-semite to
 RC> boot..

 You are incapable of admitting that Arabs are just as semitic as
 any Jews, and more so than most. So, finding that Arabs are
 sometimes not-guilty is not being anti-semitic, it's being
 honest. Which you are not. Notice you resorted to the race card,
 when you can't actually say I was wrong on any point. Typical
 conservative.

 RC> I have seen you rant against Israel too many times.

 No, you have not. You make the mistake of confusing the
 government of Israel with Israel. It's not the same thing, it's
 *NEVER* the same thing.

 You think Isarelis are little godlings, who are incapable of
 doing wrong. The people are lied to just like they are here. And
 they are deceived. The government of Israel misleads as part of
 their power game.

 The reality is, Israel has done wrong in the past. The reality
 is Israel has done great evil in the past. Look at the
 refugee camps of Shatila and Shabra they acted as guards while
 allowing the Christian militia to conduct a massacre of women
 and children. They attacked the Liberty, which they say was a
 mistake, but they made repeated attacks on a ship flying the
 American Flag with no attempt to determine if it was friendly or
 hostile.

 They attacked a UN Refugee site in '96, and in the current
 hostilities they attacked a UN observation post, and killed 4
 observers. The claim is that Hizballah was using it as a shield,
 but the observers were under attack for 6 hours, before they
 were hit and killed. In that time they and their superiors made
 repeated calls to their Isreali contacts to tell them there were
 no Hizballah in the area. Further, after they outpost was hit,
 the UN commanders arranged with Israeli authorities to send a
 convoy to check on the outpost, when they lost contact. The
 convoy was attacked. Isreali artillary had previously targeted
 Hizballah sites near the post, and the UN observers had reported
 that fact. However, this time there were no Hizballah in the
 area. Some former observers stationed at that post believe the
 attack was deliberate to prevent the UN Observers from doing
 their job of reporting Isreali movements and attacks. Since the
 post was decades old, well known to Israel, and well marked,
 they make a strong arguement.

 Others believe it was another attack on Hizballah forces near
 the post, only it was a mistake because there were no such
 forces there. That arguement is reasonable, except for the hours
 of UN pleading for a halt to the attack. That strongly suggests
 that decades of garrison duty has so compromised Isreali command
 and control as to make them an undisplined occupation force.

 RC> You wont admit that Israel didnt create its problems, that

 I'm sure Israel didn't creat most of it's problems, anymore than
 Lebanon created most of it's problems, or the US created most of
 our problems. However, that isn't what we are talking about.
 What we are talking about is Isreal attacking a country that had
 most of it's problems caused by the outside world, including
 Isreal in particular, putting them under foreign control and
 letting their ability to function as a country be destroyed.

 If Isreal expects Lebanon to control and disarm Hizballah then
 Isreal must allow Lebanon to develop a military force sufficient
 to accomplish that goal. That's how it works. There is no other
 way.

 RC> beloved organization of yours known as the United Nations

 Another lie on your part.

 RC> in the wake of WW2 created Israel.

 I have said over and over, the UN had no authority to create any
 nation. They especially had no authority to take any land and
 give rule of that land to an outside party.

 RC> The Israelis accepted the decision that created them and

 The welcomed it with joy.

 RC> they tried to abide by it and was set upon within 24 hours
 RC> or less after both the USA and USSR recognized them as a
 RC> country.

 Tried to abide by it? Look at the borders. What part of those
 borders were created by the UN? And the UN does not recognize
 border change by force.

 RC> If the "other side of this issue" cant accept it, screw
 RC> them.

 If the other side of this issue can't accept it, Israel is
 doomed. You may think Israel is omnipotent, but it isn't. The
 corruption of the Isreali miliatry by decades of brutally
 occupying other's territory, coupled with the toughening and
 experience of their opponents, creates a grave danger for
 Isreal. The rest of the world is not going to support Isreal
 forever in an unending war. And the current war may be enough to
 cost Isreal a great deal of international support. Don't bother
 claiming that the rest of the world is against Isreal, that's a
 lie. Much may be, but the critical players, including the US and
 Germany and much of Europe, has been supporting Isreal all
 along. The support is military in the case of the US, but also
 financial in the case of the rest.

 Don't even try to pretend Israel can prosper without that help.
 Poverty is endemic in Israel, even with that help. What would it
 be without it? Israel would be lucky to survive.

 Israel risks losing a great deal in this invasion. Not only much
 of it's support from the West, but the Muslim state of Egypt has
 a peace treaty with Isreal, the Muslim state of Turkey is
 *ALLIED* with Israel. Do you want to see all that go away? It
 can you know.

 You are far more an enemy of Israel than I would ever think of
 being. You seem to be dedicated to "Greater Israel" over "UN
 Created Israel". In demanding it all you put them at risk of
 losing it all.

 Along with saying the UN had no right to create Israel, I have
 often said, the only right Israel has to exist is the fact that
 it exists. Which is the same right all countries have to exist.
 An alternative is the right of the people who live there to have
 their country. Well, all of what Isreal now occupies, and all
 of what Israel claims beyond the UN allocation, is truly Arab
 land. So, they have the same right to their own country as
 Israel has.

 If Israel is to survive in the long run, the only way will be to
 establish an agreement with the Islamic population that is just
 and fair. Not legal, or even binding, those things fade with
 time and end whenever one side thinks it can get away with it.
 The agreement must be recognized by all sides as just and fair.

 This will require first and above all that Israelis accept that
 "Greater Israel" can never be accomplished by force. Without
 that all else is doomed. The Arabs who had to give up their
 lands and their right to sovereignty over land that was theirs
 must be compensated somehow.

 Nothing else will work. The Arabs do have a valid complaint. It
 must be resolved. Trying to resolve it by killing the Arabs will
 lead to nothing more than the destruction of Israel, from the
 inside more likely than anything else.

 Until you recognize that Israel has done wrong, and that whether
 or not the Arabs did wrong does not in the least change the fact
 that Israel has done wrong, you are an enemy of Israel.

 Until you recognize that war will never guarantee the survival
 of Israel, you are an enemy of Israel.

 Until you recognize that the Arabs have rights also, and
 grieviences that must be resolved, you are an enemy of Israel.

 Recently I attended a mass where the priest, in his sermon, went
 into the treatment of an enemy during war. His focus was
 essentially on the notion that God is on our side. He went on to
 say the Japanese in WW2 were as much God's children as we are.

 The same applies to all sides in the Middle East.

 Deal with it, and save your Bull Shit racist evasions.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... The bible says there is a hell, nowhere does it say anyone's actually there
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