Text 42698, 231 rader
Skriven 2006-11-17 09:57:56 av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
  Kommentar till text 42687 av mark lewis (1:3634/12.0)
Ärende: Insults
===============
Hello mark!

17 Nov 06 05:36, you wrote to me:

 RC>> So you are saying that Ford, Chrysler, GM with their unionized
 RC>> help can compete with the non-union competition, such as but not
 RC>> limited to the Japanese and Korean brands?

 ml> no... i don't really like unions, either... in many cases, they have
 ml> contributed to costs going up more than is necessary which has lead to
 ml> those products being priced out of range of folk who used to be able
 ml> to purchase them...

This was at the crux of my original point, unions cause labor costs to go up,
often exhorbitantly and these costs get integrated into the costs of the
products and services that get produced. Its no wonder why foreign based auto
makers have been able to put such a hurting on Detroit.

Heh, wait til China starts exporting cars, and they are prepping to do so.

 ml>> it is all about the benjamins... nothing more and nothing less...

 RC>> Business has always been about making money.

 ml> no... greedy business has always been about making money and recording
 ml> higher and higher earnings in each reporting period... there's only so
 ml> much money to go around!

Everywhere I have worked has been about increasing your numbers from prior
milestones.

Business wont survive if they try to cap their numbers, even the mom and pop
ones.

 ml> many businesses that i know of are in business to provide a needed
 ml> service and make _some_ money... take a mom'n'pop grocery store, for
 ml> instance... many of them are in place to serve the local neighborhood
 ml> so that everyone doesn't have to drive miles to get groceries and
 ml> other needed products... sure, they want to do more than break even
 ml> and i have no problem with that...

and they still want to break last years numbers.

At which point do you want them to stop these aspirations?

 ml> however, when you look at
 ml> companies, like walmart and lowes hardware for instance, that mark
 ml> products up 100% or more, that is just plain wrong... that's like you
 ml> purchasing the components to build a complete computer and setting the
 ml> sales price at double the cost (100% markup)... well, guess what...
 ml> you won't be selling many computers at that price... either that or
 ml> you'll start using lowend components in an effort to get the price
 ml> down for your target buyers...

You should see the markup on USB data cables, yet everyones prices are in line
with each other. Markup on complete computer equipment, printers and
peripherals is virtually non-existant, heck what little profit you made is
exhausted by the time you factor in the costs to transport it to the store and
to stock it on the shelf. This pricing structure is evident in the grocery
business to, there isnt much markup on meat, dairy and produce, they make up
for it in the grocery dept.

Do you even know what the cost of doing business is? Why are you bemoaning what
you think is highway robbery markup?

A Big Box store has to:

* Pay Rent (commercial lease prices arent on par with residential)

* If they own the property they sit on, then you have property taxes, which are
far more exhorbitant on commercial real estate than on residential. Then there
is maintenance costs.

* Pay the costs to insure their business and operations comply with local,
state and federal regulations.

* Pay utilities, I am sure you can envision the electricity usage alone?

* Insurance for building, assets and liability

* PAYROLL

* Cost of goods.

* Cost of Fixtures, equipment and maintenance of same.

* Advertising.

I dont think you knew this.

 ml>> how many companies/corporations do you truely see taking care of
 ml>> their workforce with all the benefits and such bestowed on them
 ml>> by the republicans? i see none... what i see is them shoveling
 ml>> below federal poverty level wages and not caring one iota because
 ml>> there's always another potential employee out there that is
 ml>> willing to settle for less than poverty existance :(

Lets socialize everything Mark, it sounds like what you want?

 RC>> Whats a fair wage?

 ml> i'd say that a fair wage is a wage that at least allows someone to
 ml> live above the federal poverty level... how that wage fits in with the
 ml> cost of living in their locale is another matter altogether...

exactly, so if you raise the minimums across the board, you could adversely
affect those businesses in low income areas whom already have a slim operating
margin as it is. The wolf will eat itself starting with its tail.

 RC>> I am told a wage that is twice or 2.5 times the existing minimum
 RC>> wage isnt enough?

 ml> well, can you live on $300 a week before taxes?? that's 7.50/hr @
 ml> 40hrs/wk... in this area, that's the starting wage for many
 ml> companies... at 50 working weeks a year, that's $15000 before taxes
 ml> are taken out... say 20% is taken out and that leaves you with $12000
 ml> to play with... so, can you?

The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage, its a entry level wage,
and if you want to take this entry level wage and turn it into a living wage,
then you remove the incentives for people to go out and get a skill or
education.

I work in retail and have done so for over 26 years, I am paid quite well in
retail because of my experience, should someone with no or nothing near my
experience level make the same as I?

 RC>> Labor costs is exactly why outsourcing occurs, do you want to
 RC>> make it worse?

 ml> no, that is wrong... it isn't just labor costs... there is also the
 ml> cost of paying the shareholders and the federal government hasn't
 ml> helped that, either... in fact, thay've made it worse with their 401k
 ml> stuff which forces folk to gamble their retirement funds on the
 ml> stockmarket... and that's exactly what that is... gambling...

Paying the shareholders, they are the investors you know, they do deserve a
return on their investment. Whats the point of having shares otherwise?

and for the record, privately held companies pursue profits and higher profits
too, so dont save your scorn only for Wall Street..

 RC>> They already are experimenting with self service checkout and
 RC>> ordering at fast food restaurants. Many stores have adopted self
 RC>> serve checkouts, bye bye cashiers.

 ml> and thus no jobs for those people to work at... so what do they do
 ml> now? how can they support themselves and contribute back to their
 ml> neighborhood? become crack dealers and prostitutes?? riight...

Victims of technology.. How many lost their jobs to robots in assembly lines,
textile mills and the like, you aint bemoaning that.

How many pencil pushing accountants lost their jobs to a computer loaded with
Quickbooks?

How many messenger services lost jobs to the fax machine and of course email?

A businesses largest and most controllable expense is "labor".

You going to bemoan automation next?

Here is some perspective for you, you live on a sizeable piece of property,
your lifestyle is such that you cant devote much time to raking the leaves and
cutting the lawn, so you pay a neighborhood boy to do it, you budget for that
and the occasional babysitter. Could you afford to add additional neighborhood
boys to do this for you in the name of feeling good?

 ml>> i made the statement, somewhere, before, that the republicans
 ml>> were for business and that the democratics are for the people...

 RC>> Well ok, let them be for the people until they vanquish business,
 RC>> then where will you be?

 ml> no, that's going to the opposite extreme... it never fails to cause me
 ml> wonder wny folk have to jump from one extreme to the other in their
 ml> efforts to make their points... yes, i've done it, too... anyway, it
 ml> is the middle line that is where we should be... folk making a living
 ml> and affording the products their company produces (for one thing) and
 ml> companies making enough to cover their expenses and make a little
 ml> profit for future needs...

So you favor some artificial cap being imposed on what they can earn?

On what would you based the profit dollars one would need for the future?

 RC>> Didnt you start truck driving, who created the need for you to
 RC>> drive that truck?

 ml> i went to school and got my class a cdl, yes... the need will always
 ml> be there... someone has to drive the trucks... that won't ever stop...

as long as there is a need for goods to be transported, the question will
always be how many trucks are needed.

Do away with Walmart and quite a few truckers would be idled.

Companies like Swift and JB Hunt employed quite a few truckers to service the
Walmart account, now think about it.. :)

 RC>> Blindly mandating wage levels to overcome a income level
 RC>> designation wont work either.

 ml> i never said anything about blindly doing anything... that's just as
 ml> stupid as the existing situation and circumstances...

Ok, then put forth your plan, instead of just saying something should be done,
make sure your plan doesnt penalize business else the wolf will eat itself.

 RC>> You are better off investing in education.

 ml> investing with what?!!? if one doesn't have anything to invest with,
 ml> how is one supposed to invest in anything?? do not suggest loans and
 ml> credit... that's another trap on the unsuspecting and one that only

Investing in education by making it more readily accesible and affordable, as
well as making the K-12 one more efficient. If people have a skill they can
sell, they can make more.

I dont think the public education offered now compares with the quality of the
one I received and when I was in, you didnt need as many credits to graduate,
go figger?

==
Ross
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... You do not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
--- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-30413
 * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)