Text 46858, 158 rader
Skriven 2007-01-07 07:37:07 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
  Kommentar till text 46846 av Björn Forsström (2:203/614.61)
Ärende: My actions are worse than Roy Witt's!
=============================================
Hello Björn.

07 Jan 07 08:25, you wrote to me:


 JS>>>>     That would only work if both would actually work together
 JS>>>> and actively moderate. How often have I been called a coward
 JS>>>> because I didn't speak up to moderate people from Z1 as some
 JS>>>> from Z2 thought I should? Do we see Bjorn actively moderating
 JS>>>> people from Z2? Or anyone at all for that matter? Seems like he
 JS>>>> wants to be moderator in name only but would prefer that
 JS>>>> someone else actually do the work.

 BF>>> Well, here you go again, only blaiming one (1) person so why do
 BF>>> you wonder that, at least I, call you a coward?

 JS>>      I blame one person because he is responsible for letting the
 JS>> rest happen. Think of him as a teacher in a class. He is standing
 JS>> out in the hallway somewhere while the class is in chaos. He
 JS>> could go into the class and take control but he chooses not to.
 JS>> He then complains that the students are unruly when he has
 JS>> allowed them to act that way. It is his job to teach and maintain
 JS>> control but he doesn't.

 BF> As far as I know Shannon have said that he can handle the Z1 folks so
 BF> once again, take it up with him why he doesn't enter the American
 BF> class room and and take control over his students. Ask HIM why he let
 BF> Roy get away with forgery.

     With all due respect to Shannon. I currently consider Bjorn Felten
to be the moderator here. I am not aware of any formal agreement between
Shannon and Bjorn to co-moderate this echo. Until that officially changes
it would be upto Bjorn to go back into the classroom and take control.
Either that or find someone else that actually wants to teach the class.

 BF>>> So far not even you have said anything to Roy about his forgery
 BF>>> but you all blaim me, the victim, and not the criminal and you
 BF>>> blaim Felten but not the abuser.

 JS>>      Blame you for what?  Where in my reply did I blame you for
 JS>> anything?

 BF> Come on, you know perfectly know what I mean.

 JS>> I haven't spoken up to moderate people because it isn't my job to
 JS>> do so.

 BF> But it is your job to blaim Felten for the chaos in here?

     Is Bjorn not the moderator here? If Bjorn is NOT the moderator then
tell me who is the new moderator so that I may direct any future concerns
to the correct person. If Bjorn IS the moderator then he should be willing
and responsible to moderate everyone and NOT just those that HE chooses. It
would be like him only complaining about the actions of certain people and
not others. Nevermind, he already does that.

     You say that Shannon should moderate Roy amoung others. You also say
that it should work both ways. Come on Bjorn, take off the blinders. Felten
hasn't visibly moderated anyone from Z2 let alone anyone from Z1. As I see
it Felten would prefer to BE the moderator while having someone else actually
DO the moderating. Talk about a cluster fxxx.

     If the idea of co-moderators is to work here then they should have
equal authority and not be limited to only moderating certain groups of
people. Fidonet is divided enough as it is. We shouldn't go out of our way
to make the divisions wider. Given the current mindset of Felten I don't
see co-moderating working out unless some serious changes in attitude
occur. And I don't mean just for Bjorn.


 JS>> It is (Should be) Bjorn's job to do so. Do we see him doing
 JS>> anything?

 BF> That works both way, doesn't it. Shannon claim to be the mod too and
 BF> have said that he can handle the Z1 folks and the only thing he have
 BF> done is to do nothing as well and by that he advocate forgery. Or did
 BF> you miss what Roy did?


     As I stated I know of no formal agreement between Shannon and Bjorn. In
fact Shannon has asked several people including yourself I do believe if they
will acknowledge him as a/the moderator here. Most if not all stated that
Bjorn is the recognized moderator here.


 JS>> If I were to speak up I would expect Bjorn and his supporters to say
 JS>> "Your NOT the moderator, Bjorn is the rightfull moderator here!"
 JS>> It also seems that you expect me and others to moderate people
 JS>> that Bjorn doesn't want to deal with. If Bjorn is the rightfull
 JS>> moderator here then he needs to moderate evenly and fairly to
 JS>> everyone. Not just to those that he would like to and expect
 JS>> someone else to take care of moderating the others.

 BF> We have been through this so many times the past year without anything
 BF> happening so it feels rather meaningless to keep it up and my POV is
 BF> that if people start to moderate themself and be the adult we all say
 BF> we are we wouldn't need a mod at all.


     In the past year has people moderating themselves worked?  People do
and say what they like because they know that nothing will be done about it.
That and the migration of people and attitudes from other echos that have
been allowed to find a home here.


 JS>>     Bottom line here is that if Bjorn is the rightfull moderator
 JS>> here that you and others say he is then he should act as one. Not
 JS>> sit back and claim to be the moderator but only want to be a
 JS>> moderator in NAME only.

 BF> As I have said above, it works both ways. Feel free to take this up
 BF> with the so called elisted moderator as well, he that have said that
 BF> he can handle the Z1 folks.


     Are you willing to consider Shannon and Bjorn as equal moderators in
this echo?


 JS>>   Isn't it time for the moderator here to "Either shit or git off
 JS>> the pot"?


 BF> Or give him the right to cancel Roy:s accsess to this echo for
 BF> forgery.


     That would be his choice if he (Bjorn) would actually moderate.

     For the record (Not that it really matters) I think what Roy did
was wrong. Again I don't think there was deliberate malice involved on
Roy's part. But that doesn't excuse IMHO what he did. One should not
post a message, netmail, email, whatever with the slightest deception
about who wrote it or where it came from. It is IMO one of "Those things"
that one just doesn't do. I think that Roy should be held responsible
for his actions. No more and no less than anyone else.


 BF>>> In my mind that's a very strange way to act. Go back in your
 BF>>> archive and find out that I didn't start the feud with Shannon
 BF>>> but it's me that you blaim. Strange, isn't it? Tell Shannon to
 BF>>> back off and I will do that too.

 JS>>      Huh???    Where were WE talking about you and Shannon??

 BF> That's what it's all about now, isn't it?


     If you say so.


 BF> ---
 BF>  * Origin: . (2:203/614.61)

Jeff

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