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Möte FIDONEWS_OLD1, 49742 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa 
Text 6528, 163 rader
Skriven 2005-03-09 10:08:11 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
   Kommentar till text 6487 av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
Ärende: Shannon Talley's copyright violations
=============================================
Hello Ross,

08 Mar 2005 19:22, Ross Cassell wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

 MV>> Yes, the part about the reporting of having a nodelist with extension
 MV>> 366 could be considered news. The comment that it will probably never
 MV>> be repeated and the reason why are my personal comments on that news
 MV>> and therefore are not covered by the exemptions for news items. Also
 MV>> that article is not the only one on mr. Talley's website. I have
 MV>> writen articles about other subject in the past and they certainly 
 MV>> are opinion, not news.

 RC> Irrelevant, the Fidonews is news of this organization.

The fact that it is called FidoNEws does not mean tat each and every article is
news.

 RC>>> You submitted the article to Fidonews for distribution,

 MV>> And for distributing by the FidoNews editor *only*.

 RC> Whom does not control distribution after he hatches.

Irrelevant.

 RC>>> You knew it would end up on several BBS's and you also know that
 RC>>> these BBS's have that FDN setup as a downloadable file area for
 RC>>> its users, many of which arent sysops.

 MV>> And for making that file *as issued by the FidoNews editor* available
 MV>> for freq/download I gave permission.

 RC> Shannons done that.

No, he does not. What he displays on his website is not the ASCII version of
FidoNews as distributed by the FidoNews Editor.

 RC>>> and you also know of one web site, known as
 RC>>> sensationalcontent.com, makes our echoes available for any surfer
 RC>>> to see. So your so called article was up on there and probably
 RC>>> still is.

 MV>> Two wrongs don't make a right.

 RC> Irrelevant, you cannot single out Shannon for your bitching 
 RC> nevertheless unless you go after everyone who does it..

Where does it say that I have to hunt down all infringers all at once befroe I
can act against one?

 RC>>> I havent actually viewed his site but am under impression that he
 RC>>> makes Fidonews editions viewable online as ASCII text or some
 RC>>> such.

 MV>> Nope. He makes it available as HTML readbale pages too.

 RC> Yeah I just surfed to his site.

 RC> Seems to be the original snooze, because there is no fonts or 
 RC> graphics,

It is not the ASCII that Björn distributes, therefore it is a republication.
 
 RC> I used to publish the regional and net segments on a web 
 RC> site I maintained for Fidonet Region 18, I ran a program that created 
 RC> files I could use as html web pages. You would configure a header 
 RC> file and a footer file, the header file contained page info such as 
 RC> the stuff up to and including the <body> tag and the footer contained 
 RC> anything else down to the </BODY> and </HTML> tags. When I ran the 
 RC> program in my automation it would take the header, read in the net 
 RC> seg and then append footer to create the html file that would get 
 RC> auto-uploaded to the web site.

Very nice, but illegal without the permission of the copyright holder.

 RC> It appears to me that Shannon does something similiar, he probably 
 RC> has a header file up to the <BODY> tag that references that 
 RC> background he uses, then appends the FIDONEWS exactly as he received 
 RC> it from the editor (via channels).

Yes, something like that. Or someone else did it and he recieved the HTML
version from him.her.

 RC> See how much you dont know?

What is there to know? What you describe is making and distributing
unauthorized copies.

 RC> Even if Shannon didnt do all that, you did know that a browser will 
 RC> display a text file, didnt you?

Yes I know. So?

 RC>>> They control distribution of that work via their print, cable and
 RC>>> internet mediums.. They did not contact Bjorn to be part of this
 RC>>> distribution chain.

 MV>> And I did not contact mr. Talley to make his website part of the
 MV>> distribution chain of my articles.

 RC> His membership in Fidonet entitles him!

No. Even if the rules of FidoNet would explicitly say so,  it would be null and
void as FidoNet rules do not override copyright law. 

I did not give mr Talley permission to publis my articles on his webstie. Not
explicitly and not implicitly by joining FidoNet.

 RC>>> Look, the moral to this story is in this network, if one puts up
 RC>>> a web site or even a BBS, they better exercise some discretion on
 RC>>> what they put on it.

 MV>> When in a glass house one should not throw stones.

 RC> Then put the fuggin rock down.

I am not the one in the glass house and I wasn't the one that started throwing
stones. It was mr. talley and his gang that started this. It was them that came
down on a fellow member of FidoNet for alleged copyright violations. I just ask
the he practises what he preaches: respect other's copyrights.
 
 RC>>> Bjorn may not care and I dont care what he does with his own
 RC>>> computer, his actions have not had any adverse affect on me, if
 RC>>> the right people find out and decide that they want to talk to
 RC>>> him about what he is doing, then that piper is his to pay.
 RC>>> However it is his own actions that brought this grief onto him.

 MV>> No, it is you guys that continue to impose your US morals on the rest
 MV>> of the world.

 RC> That sword cuts both ways Mister.

No, I am not imposing my laws on you. I am asking that you follow *your own*
law. mr. Talley is violating your own 1976 copyright act.
 
 MV>>  It has been pointed out many times by now that what
 MV>> Björn is doing is not against the laws of his country. But you won't
 MV>> accept that. You keep insisting on judging him by US morals and US
 MV>> law.

 RC> As you judge us using yours!

No. I am judging you by *your own* morals and laws. It was yiou guys that
sterted screaming that we respect other's copyright. So all I ask now is that
you respect mine.

 MV>> You are out to "get him". Plain and simple.

 RC> I aint out to get Bjorn,

Your actions speak a different language.

 RC> he is out to get himself, his website doesnt bother me, but it is clear 
 RC> to me now that you have chosen to shill for him, whatever the cost or 
 RC> case.

I can't help it. When I see an injustice done, I come to the rescue.


Cheers, Michiel

--- Msged 6.0.1
 * Origin: We love MsgEd ... (2:280/5555)