Text 9258, 358 rader
Skriven 2005-03-31 03:36:02 av Bjarte Boe (2:211/42)
   Kommentar till text 9151 av Roy Witt (1:10/22)
Ärende: NIMBY
=============
Hello Roy,

>>>> came a disclamer agreement or any bullshit, we care to be
>>>> acknowledged by our own law and rights.
>>> You should look at the 70 or so conventions and treaties your
>>> country has signed.
>> As the time changes, I am a voter and could affect the resignation
>> of the different conventions and treaties.
> Doubtful. You're dealing with polictians there.

Later, I found Norway - as in Holland - does not have copyright laws for
exampel DVD. That's for example legal to copy DVD for own use, and copy
protection WON'T be used here.

>> It is parlament voting in September, and the Red-Green coality
>> could see to win - and they have a more discance American attitude
>> than our sitting Government.
> No biggy.

There are many new parlament members here, and very many fully want to confront
the U.S. for their politic and policy. I see a parallell between Poland and
Norway - we were satellite states of USA (NATO) and Soviet Union. We obeyed and
were loyality to the powers (USA & USSR) because for protection. But USA had
changed the face, so...?

>> I tradionatilly support the blue wing of political with the
>> traditional ties between USA and Norway, but it seems that I would
>> change my mind if there are conventions and treaties at more
>> "one-way"
> Just like the rest of the countries in the world, yours will one day
> protect copyrights of people's works.

Just for European use, not for distribution in USA!

>> For example, a wanted Norwegian crime who violated the
>> U.S. State and Federal laws, could be delivered to US.. But if an
>> American citizen who make any violation of Norwegian law, could not
>> be delivered to Norway. That is unfair.
> I agree. But it happens all the time here. People from Mexico come
> across the border and commit all kinds of crimes in the US. Then they
> flee back to Mexico, never to be prosecuted, because Mexico doesn't have
> any extradition treaty with the US.

That's the same problem about Norwegian copyright laws, and I would be very
happy if Microsoft for example blacklist Norway - because we DON'T need that
shit with OEM licenses! Microsoft uses the power against Norwegian grossists to
buy the whole market, and ignores the Norwegian Competition Authority (Office
of Fair Trading). Microsoft is probably too big that we need support from the
EU's Office of Fair Trading, and it seems to work at all.

I know Microsoft is paying a lot of tax for the welfare for U.S. citizen only,
and it is best for you all if Microsoft and similar companies misuse their
position!

> OTH, if an American commits a crime in Mexico, even a misdemeanor, not
> even the US Embassy can get you out of jail. You either have to bribe
> your way out or sit out your sentence, if they ever get around to trying
> your case.

That is not a problem for your all rich Americans?

>>>> Not alien (USA for example) laws, and we do not waste our brain do
>>>> know about that!
>>> I see. You waste it on other things?
>> No, we do have TOO much other tings to use our dickhead to!
> What's a dickhead?

Unecessary question.

>>>>> Then you won't have anything to worry about in the near future.
>>>> I hope so that, and it handles about the respect of U.S.!
>>> You should be careful of what you wish for.
>> Listen, listen, what Roy said! The famous U.S. power arrogance!
> Not in the least. Without the US to bash, you uros will begin to fight
> amongst yourselves or become slaves of the Russians. History repeats
> itself and urope is long overdue.

It happened nothing. Norwegian Communist Party was "oppressed" by Government
and mass medias, and that never got more than 7%. Now that is a almost dead
party. Look at Sweden and Finland who didn't need the security of NATO. It
would also never happen here.

>>>> I lived in U.S. for one year, and know much about U.S. and got good
>>>> credits about that.
>>> You couldn't possibly have lived in every part of the US and know
>>> anything about this country.
>> I am glad to hear from you. You are from Texas, and you don't feel
>> a part of US!
> I'm not from Texas, I'm moving there.

Wow! The true rednecks there won't believe your lucky fantasy about a viable
United States!

OK, but it will be a cruelly reading of these links. It will break the American
Pride, feelings and heart. Here are links for Texas and U.S. separatism
movements:

-+- start of cut ------------

ALASKA:
http://www.akip.org/intro.html

"We are statistically the largest third party in the United States and we
continue to grow. Join us as we lead Alaska into the prosperity and freedom
Alaskans expect, deserve and should enjoy."

"Political parties, both Republican and Democrat, dominate from Washington,
D.C., and [don't] quite understand the political problems, or opportunities, in
an arctic and subarctic country." Walter J. Hickel

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned
institutions."
Joe Vogler

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CAP/BARTLETT/colonial.html

TEXAS:
http://www.anus.com/etc/texas/

"If you support this goal, join our quest for peaceful separation from the
United States. Our intent is to provide Texas with its own diversified economy,
new levels of citizen education, empowerment and social responsibility, a
crime-free zone not founded in the politics of a decaying national entity,
liberation from intrusive laws against the persons of free individuals, and a
sensible plan for value and social justice in government. "

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2788/
http://www.sipoftexas.org/

HAWAII:
http://hawaii-nation.org/
"The recovery of Hawaiian self-determination is not only an issue for Hawaii,
but for America. ... let all of us, Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian, work toward a
common goal. Let us resolve ... to advance a plan for Hawaiian sovereignty."
  - Democratic Governor Ben Cayetano

http://www.pixi.com/~kingdom/     Kingdom of Hawaii
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/hawaii/  Last Queen of Hawaii
http://members.aol.com/pauleno/        Perspective of Hawaiian Sovereignty

VERMONT:
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/republicvt/
"This page is dedicated to the secession of Vermont from the federalist United
States. It is founded on the belief that democracy CANNOT be practiced on a
large scale. In order to preserve Vermont's unique democratic tradion, a
separation must be staged with the bloated bureaucracy of the United States.
This break must occur on all levels: political, economic, societal, cultual,
and emotional."

CALIFORNIA:
http://calrepublic.tripod.com/
"Califronia has its own military forces, independent of the National Guard,
called the California State Defense Forces. Commander-and-Chief Governor Gray
Davis"

"Henceforth, the California Republic is a free, sovereign, and independent
nation. With the full powers to conclude peace, contract alliances, establish
commerce, and to assume all rights and responsibilities due to a free,
sovereign, and independent nation."

http://www.aufdenspring.com/eupintro.html

RHODE ISLAND:
http://members.aol.com/pauleno/ - New England Confederation

PUERTO RICO (U.S. Territory)
http://www.independencia.net/ingles/welcome.html
P.R. Independence party founded in 1946

From: http://www.constitution.org/cs_separ.htm
United States of America
 Alaskan Independence Party  Seeks referendum with choice of statehood,
independence, commonwealth, or self-governing territory.
 Alaskans for Independence
 Free the Bear - California Secession and Independence
 California Secessionist Party
 The Republic of Cascadia  Advocates independence for the Pacific Northwest
from both America and Canada, with a libertarian and pro-business perspective.
 Cascadian National Party  Advocate secession of the present states of
Washington and Oregon from the United States.
 Cascadia Confederacy  Advocates independence of the Pacific Northwest region
from the U.S. and Canada, with an anti-nationalist and anti-capitalist
perspective.
 State of Jefferson  The rich history surrounding the events leading to the
State of Jefferson secession movement of 1941. The State of Jefferson lives on
in the hearts and minds of many residents of northern California and southern
Oregon today.
 Hawai`i  Independent & Sovereign  Separatist movement of Hawaiian aboriginal
people.
 La Voz de Aztlan  Separatist movement that seeks a reconquista (reconquest) by
chicanos (ethnic hispanics of Aztec descent) of the Southwestern United States
and creation of a new nation of Aztlan (legendary ancient homeland).
 New England Confederation Movement  Seek independence for New England states.
Also see New Hampshire Chapter.
 South Carolina League of the South  Seek independence through secession,
perhaps for all of the Southern states of the 1861-65 Confederate States of
America.
 Republic of Texas  This is one of several pages for the somewhat fractured
Texas Independence Movement which has recently received a great deal of
attention. We do not support the movement. Constitutional compliance throughout
the United States is attainable. Independence is not necessary, and distracts
from the cause of constitutional compliance. But they do raise a number of
interesting issues.
 Provisional Government of the Republic of Texas  Another Republic of Texas
site.
 United People's Party (Partido Nacional La Raza Unida)  Many of them seek to
separate the part of the U.S. taken from Mexico from the U.S. and make it an
independent Hispanic nation called Aztlan.

------------ end of cut ----------------


>> I know the strong separatist feelings in Texas, California and
>> Alaska.
> Like I said, you don't know anything about the US.

Look above. I got A in American History, Politic and geographics at school in
NJ. Ask me for a proof of the grade report by Netmail.

>> The other states in US are not worth for you, so your point is
>> absolutely valueless!
> Much more value than your ignorant rants.

I judged to move to U.S. to live and work, but I undecided, because of mostly
the pension system and U.S. Law and regulations. I estimated if I live 50 years
more in U.S., so it would be much more unclear in comparison with Norway.
Because of different presidents, separatism feelings and so on that interrupts
U.S.'s economy.

In 1990, Norway introduced the Fund of Oil. It began with $15.000.000.000. Now
it is at $150.000.000.000 and it grows much faster. We are happy for U.S.'s
Iraq war, we will earn much more because of the higher oil prices and the fund
brokers here were speculating with the weapon trades in connection with Iraq
and Afghanistan wars. It is fucking much money we have earned. Part
$150.000.000.000 with 4.500.000 Norwegian heads for 2005, it is $33.333 per
head. Look at: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/no.html

"Debt - external:
$0 (Norway is a net external creditor) (2003 est.)  "

USA:

"
Debt - external:
$1.4 trillion (2001 est.)  "

TOO BAD! And too bad for the future for you all!

(Resource: Central Intellegent Agency, CIA)

Look at $1.4 trillion in 2001, and your president Bush took more growing budget
deficit because of Iraq war. He took $200.000.000.000 to that! It is almost the
whole our fund. I don't see a future for / in USA, I am sorry.

The Fund of Oil in Norway is meant for pension for current and newer
generations in future. Note that won't be a sleeping pillow for Norwegian
Government, we develop process industries and produces a lot of innovation,and
a lot of science ideas, that stimulate the growth of the fund.

>> I talked with an Alaskan exchange student here and he said Alaska
>> wanted to be an own country because of their oil resources and he
>> said US Government surelly will use the military power against
>> Alaska if the Alaskan parlament declares any form for independence.
> And that is ludricrous. Alaska's legislature petitioned the US
> legislature to become a state, way back in 1959. One person's opinion
> isn't the opinion of the entire state's population.

Alaska Independence Party is 3rd biggest party in *United States*, not locally
in Alaska!

>> I know US bought Alaska from Russia in 1850, and Alaska have selled
>> enought out of USA.
> And many other parts of North America. Your point?

See above at the links. They are tired of the US legislature in DC!

>>>> But 15 yrs later, it changes my sight. Don't ask me why, you all
>>>> know why.
>>> I have no idea...tell me why.
>> Ask your Congressmen, they are partying at all and telling everyone
>> that they are congress men. The truth, they are carrying the law
>> proposal while their brain are sleeping after a long night at DC!
>> You all voters have the responibilty to keeping on the right vote
>> of a dickhead with clean and clear brain!
> Frankly, I think you're the dickhead who has no clue as to what's going
> on in the US.

You are frankly not admitting about what happens inside the U.S.

U.S. look nice at their windows, but a day the windows will break. The day the
Alaska ligislature declares indepedence, and the government in DC send the
military force against Alaska for protecting the resources declared as U.S.
Federal property. Then the world will ask the gov. in Washington DC about why
the military force, because U.S. declared as world's first nation of freedom.
Freedom? Ha!

>>>> Drug trafficing are a more easier problem to tackle outside your
>>>> border, but copyright.. There are different laws,
>>> Like I said, take a look at the 70 or so conventions and treaties
>>> your country has signed. Basing your opinion in Norway's civil law
>>> isn't enough.
>> Neither the U.S. civil law. You could be sued for nothing, be
>> careful there!
> Anybody can be sued anywhere. Norway is no exception.

We sued some Americans who violated our laws, but they do have immunity. It is
time for a fair dismissal of some of 70 conventions and treaties you wrote
about.

>> I am happy to live here, here are much safe and here are less crazy
>> peoples and more tolerance.
> I am happy that you're happy to live there. I know many Norwegian
> immigrants here, who're glad they dont' live there.

The day they regret to live in U.S., they would be happy for the possibility to
return to Norway. Norway do have a hard and inhuman immigrant system, even you
are from USA, Somalia, Thailand, Japan, Russia etc. My friends from west and
east tried to move here, and they do not be given the priority in the
employment market. It is easier for us to be a new U.S. Immigrant. If we want.

>>>> and some of U.S. ISP provide their services that across your
>>>> borders and the different ISP does have own policy, and so on State
>>>> and Federal regulations.
>>> Very true. And those US ISPs must follow US law. Norwegien law
>>> doesn't matter to them, unless it is in compliance with those 70 or
>>> so conventions and treaties Norway has signed.
>> In such Internet service, it should be exceptions.
> Not.

Then we can use the political measures.

>> The definition of Internet is the anarchy environment and the ISP
>> should apply to their own country regulations, NOT across their
>> border!
> Wrong.

You need the Internet for your welfare in your ages as senior citizen.

>> USA should be careful with that, even the origion of Internet is
>> from USA (NJ)!
> Is it?

Yes. In 1969, Bell labs developed the UNIX who was the fundament of the ARPANET
- and the network communication came 2 yrs later (MIT / Berkeley)

>> Unfortunatelly, both way. EU (we are non-EU member) are making more
>> healthy mind, while Americans are more awared until the least
>> juridic detail!
>> You are not allowed to have oral sex in a state for example, LOL!
> Wanna bet?

You violate it anyway, and I won't do that with an American girl who know I do
have a lot of $$$ in my pocketbook :-)

Bjarte

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: Scandinavia Plus BBS - Norway - sca.hesbynett.no (2:211/42)