Text 9887, 293 rader
Skriven 2005-04-13 16:27:26 av Roy Witt (1:10/22)
   Kommentar till text 9879 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
Ärende: NIMBY
=============
Hello Carol.

13 Apr 33 19:24, you wrote to me:

 CS>> tracking the rich older son, not the poorer relations I came from.
 CS>> Lots of money in the family, just not my side of it :-(
 RW>> That's how it is with Nancy's maternal grandparents' family. They
 RW>> own Texas oil wells and are rolling in money, but her side of the
 RW>> family doesn't get to share in it, unless they're visiting one of
 RW>> them.
 CS> *sigh* yup.  Enough filtered down that Mom was able to raise 3 kids
 CS> and almost never worked until later when we'd moved on and then, so
 CS> she has social security credits.  Nothing left for us kids though
 CS> except a Mom who was home for us and gave us joy to recall, so I
 CS> call that a good deal.

Well, you did have the best of it, as today's kids don't have either
parent at home very much. I grew up in the same environment you did,
until the baby got old enough that she only needed a sibling's
supervision. My brother got that job. By then, I had a paper route and
was making my own money. We lived on mom's income, while dad put his
into investments. When the two of them retired, he with his investments
paying off and she with a pension from her job, plus both of them
getting SS, they had more than enough money to go around. For the last
17 years, we each have shared in that as the government's maximum
allowed gift once a year.

 RW>> It would have been nice to be born a rich kid...

 CS> It was strange.  I didnt have money as a kid at all, but was raised
 CS> in a rich ethic and all that.  I know what spoon to use when
 CS> presented with 4 at a setting.  Forks are easier as you generally
 CS> use the outer side layer first ;-)

Well, as the oldest, I learned to 'set the table' but it was simply the
knife next to and to the right of the plate and then the fork and spoon.
I got to wash my fair share as well.

 CS>>> Lisa Anne Running-tree which doesnt sound very Cherokee at all,
 CS>>> nor do I know what a 'Running-tree' is....
 RW>>> Maybe she was a logger and her job was running on the tree (log)
 RW>>> while it floated in the lake or river. That's what herding trees
 RW>>> down stream is called; Running Trees.

 CS>> Doubt it was her doing that ;-)  Maybe her family did something
 CS>> like that? But I dont know that Indians did much 'logging'
 CS>> per-see.

 RW>> Probably not, but they could have worked for logging companys. She
 RW>> cou have been the daughter of one who did.

 CS> Dunno.  Mom was born in 1930.  Her Dad in 1885.

That sounds like Nancy's parents. Her mom was born in 1912, but her dad
was born 1895, but they didn't marry until Nancy's dad was 45.

 CS> Lissa Anne was his grandmother and may have been 1800 though
 CS> probably 1820 or 1830. The letters talking about her are 1845 if I
 CS> remember it right.

I have the account of the Witt immigration from Germany to New Orleans
about that time. The father died on the way, the widow settled in East
St Louis and re-married a few years later. Daniel, my GG-Grandfather was
about 5 or 6yo then. They ended up on a farm near Pittsburg, Illinois.

Interesting tales of being loaned out to work for local farmers to help
pay their way as they got older. There was a sister in there too, but
not much is mentioned about her, accept that she too was loaned out to
help pay her way.

 RW>> My grandmother didn't like to claim her indian heritage, but my
 RW>> grandfather exploited it to the hilt. He liked to go fishing on
 RW>> the reservation because he didn't need a license and access was
 RW>> free. Then the indians got smart and started to charge $1 to park
 RW>> and $1 to fish from their shores. A boat in the water cost another
 RW>> buck. That was the day that gramps backed the 41 Chevy out of
 RW>> there and said he'd never g back. Don't know that he ever did, but
 RW>> he was stubborn enough to keep that promise.

 CS> heheheh. I dont think anyone in my family tried to claim any
 CS> fishing rights over this.

According to my dad, gramps was stubborn enough that he'd do anything to
save a buck. Dad bought his first car with his dad as an equal partner.
Dad never got to drive the car. That's when he said he learned to be on
his own and bought his own car. Gramps bought that 41 Chevy a month
before Pearl Harbor and kept it into the early 1950s. Traded it in a 52
Pontiac. The Chevy was a much better car.

 CS>> Island, german.  Family name was Von Papen, but they
 CS>> 'Americanized' to Pape to avoid association with an infamous uncle
 CS>> who was high with the Kaiser (and later not so high but was with
 CS>> Hitler).  Pape is a very common name, like 'Smith' or 'Jones' but
 CS>> in Germany along the French border.

 CS>> There's even a region called the Pape region I think.  They make
 CS>> red wine too.  Chateau du Pape.

 RW>> Southern France. They make both red and white wine there.

 CS> I've never heard of the white wine, but the red is exported.  I
 CS> even bought a bottle once just to experience it but well, red wine
 CS> isnt my thing so I didnt enjoy it as much as it probably was worth.

Got any Pape relatives in Texas? I'm in the process of buying a place
there and there's mention of a Pape in the development past of this
area. c1949-50 ... I'm reading some interesting papers. There's a
clause in the subdivsion plat request that excludes everyone but
caucasions from buying and living there. Of course, that was nullified
by the Civil Rights act of 1965.  :o)

 CS>> war) and by the Civil war, we spanned the border and there are
 CS>> some very sad (and true) tales about brothers literally being
 CS>> split on it.

 RW>> Yeup. My GG-grandfather fought for the yankees and his younger
 RW>> brother joined the SC rebels, never to be heard from again.
 RW>> Although a couple my relatives who delve into these things have
 RW>> claimed that they've fou part of his trail.

 CS> Same here.  Much of the 'money trail' for my branch peters out
 CS> then, the rest in the 1929 crash although they had enough left for
 CS> world trotting, just not enough to last down to my generation.
 CS> Lasted well through Mom as a child however.

My mother tells of taking lard sandwiches to school during the
depression and coming home from school to find the family belongings in
the street. Her father was a railroad conductor, but he gambled away his
pay before he got home. Gramma finally wised up and would meet him at
the pay window on payday.

 RW>> Where they per chance, ran into the Witts, Rochkas, Winchesters,
 RW>> Scott Dahms, Clarks, etc...

 CS> Possibly!  Actually, there is a reference to a Scott and a
 CS> Winchester, though I'm not the historian my Mom is.

The Scotts were in Wisconsin and Minnesota and the Winchesters lived in
Southern Illinois. The Winchesters did live in the Chicago area for a
short time.

 CS> Look for relations to:  Schyler, Corbet (Corbett), McGuire,
 CS> Phillips. Schyler is phonetically 'Sky Ler' and has alternative
 CS> spellings like Corbet has.  McGuire is also MacGuire (old scotts
 CS> name, MyGyire and MyGwre as well? Border area name along the welsh
 CS> border lands).

That's where the Winchesters came from, I think. I'll have to look that
up.

 CS>> bit more mixed than yours may be, but then I do not know.
 RW>> I'd say a genetic mix of Heinz 57 varieties.
 CS> LOL!  Like most of us!
 CS>> Heheh but probably some good tales!
 RW>> Things I didn't know and memories that I didn't even remember
 RW>> about my own youth. He remembered places where he lived as a kid.
 RW>> I can't recal anything that far back in my own past.

 CS> I recall pretty well.  My middle name is Elise (E-leese) and so
 CS> after an aunt I met once before she died.  She was on my Dads side
 CS> and since Mom split from Dad when I was 2, not much contact with
 CS> that side of the family. Mom took us on a trip though once up there
 CS> and i met her.  Lovely woman i am proud to be related to.  Had i
 CS> been lucky enough to have a passel of kids, I'd have an Elise
 CS> Shenkenberger just for her gentle memory that I have of her as a
 CS> child.  A grand-dam who would kneel in the dirt with a kid and
 CS> explain a blueberry seedling.  I must have been 6 when i met her
 CS> the only time.

Sounds like quaint reminiscing.

 RW>> Nothing as exciting in my family's past, but Nancy's boasts of a
 RW>> horse thief who shot his wife and her lover in his bed (the horse
 RW>> thief's), before they caught up with him. New Mexico territory
 RW>> turn of the 20th century.

 CS> OHH!! COOL!  We got some darker elves in ours as well.  Told ya
 CS> about the Doc with 2 wives in the same town but there was the
 CS> Schyler fellow, who reputedly came over on a galows ship but talked
 CS> so smooth they let him go on the stateside.  Something about
 CS> 'murder most foule' over a girl?  Or of the girl?

These stories make up for the dullness of reading about Able was beget
by Adam through Eve, etc.. :o)

 CS> He either killed over a 12 year old girl, or killed a 12 year old
 CS> girl. It's not clear.  Dont tell Schyler VA residents of that
 CS> though.  They dont have the records and he's an Icon there <g>.

I keep running into mention of Witt's who settled in VA. Don't think
they're of German descent though.

 CS>>> Neither were politically correct for WASP type USA folks to
 CS>>> claim, so ....

 RW>>> Things like that are left out of family histories, even today. A
 RW>>> broth marries an ex-wife and the kids from the previous marriage
 RW>>> have the sa sur-name as the ones from the present marriage, yet
 RW>>> they're brother an sister only by their mother's bloodline.

 CS>> Yeah doesnt help that they liked the same common names so:
 CS>> Charlotte Elizabeth travels through time to be grandmother and
 CS>> daughter and grand-daughter ;)

 RW>> As do variations of my grandmother's name of Elizabeth, only it
 RW>> became generic when they called my sister by GM Elizabeth's
 RW>> nickname, Becky. I just happen to be from a long line of Roy's,
 RW>> but I was adamant that didn't get passed on to my son. Which
 RW>> started a new string where each kid has the intials of MW ... I
 RW>> used to call them Monkey Wards...

 CS> Heheh I chose to continue the tradition.  It would have been
 CS> Elizabeth if I'd been named Charlotte.  I'd have been harder put
 CS> for a boy name, except Don and I both agreed having a kid with the
 CS> same name as the parent, is not 'good' nor is it 'good' to have the
 CS> same name as 1/2 your classmates.  We were looking aw Jerimiah when
 CS> Charlotte popped out.

If my mother would have had it her way, my name would have been Archy.
Archibold Witt...what a moniker.

 RW>>> she was abl to cook for and catch a rich farmer. 'course, being
 RW>>> an Ichabod Crain (sp) type of guy, he wasn't a good looking prize
 RW>>> himself.

 CS>> Grin!  I like it!  Looks are sorta shy on my side of the family
 CS>> too.

 RW>> The above always reminded me of that famous portrait with the
 RW>> farmer holding a pitch fork and his wife next to him. Mutt and
 RW>> Jeff, if you know what I mean. :o)

 CS> LOL!  Thats my family too.  We occasionally hit 'handsome'.

My dad's younger brother came home from WWII with a British war-bride.
Their daughter (blonde and blue eyed) was the prettiest thing by far.
Her problem was that she drank too much Coca Cola and ate raw onions.
Her teeth rotted out by the time she was 18.  Next best was my father's
oldest sister's daughter, Mary Ann. (also blonde and blue eyed) She won
a beauty contest, but never got past the county fair thing to become Ms
Illinois.

 CS>> We are 'cute' not 'lovely'.  Most of us though, are good
 CS>> cooks (Sister is the exception but her husband is a whiz with food
 CS>> and wont let her even try). My Mom was a lovely woman (handsome
 CS>> actually would be best term) but she's not a fancy cook.  Edible
 CS>> food if you consider school lunches edible ;-) Wonderful in all
 CS>> other ways though so I was blessed as a child.
 CS>>                                        xxcarol

 RW>> Well, the looks department in this family came from my paternal
 RW>> grandmother. With the Indian and Scot blood, she was a looker. My
 RW>> dad and I are the benefactors of that blood line, while my
 RW>> siblings look more like my mother's side of the family. Typical
 RW>> bulldog Brits. The Witts, all looked like your typical German, big
 RW>> bones and all of the men were bald.

 CS> Big bones?  Sis got those from Dad.  I got the scaled down version
 CS> but i happen to like having square shoulders.  Thick (over thick)
 CS> hair still at age 45 and my brother is the same.

We all had that too, but my brother has a small full moon on his head
now and my sister's is thinning. Mine is thinning too, although my hair
was thick like yours and it's harder to tell than my sister.

 RW>> Dad had all of his hair when he died and I still have all of mine.
 RW>> Dad was truely blonde w/blue eyes, while my eyes are also blue and
 RW>> my hair is/was dishwater blond and turned to brown later in life.

 CS> I was a redhead (mixed with brown/gold) as a kid but it has
 CS> darkened to at most, 'auburn' now.

I liked to date red-heads when I was young. I don't know what the
attraction was. But my first wife was a natural blonde and Nancy has the
blackest hair I've ever seen. :o)

 CS> Funny how that hit around age 25-30 and got darker.... I actually
 CS> look more 'natural' when I color it back to what I had as a kid.

Mine got dark early on too, then it stayed that way until I reached my
50s. Then the grey started to come in. I hated that.

 CS> I do however have this really nifty grey spray from the widows
 CS> peake that looks pretty good. I'm a bit early for that much grey
 CS> but the indian ancestry brings that in I think.  I see people try
 CS> to dye in a look like that, but the natural thing cant be faked.

What turns me off is all of these women running around with blue hair.
Silliest thing I ever saw.


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