Text 11169, 108 rader
Skriven 2008-02-16 11:15:34 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 11142 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Shootings in USA
========================
16 Feb 08 11:28, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe:

 RB>> I've owned and used many guns in my lifetime: everything except
 RB>> assault rifles and machine guns. When I was young, I used to go
 RB>> "hunting" with them occasionally on my parent's 160 acre farm in
 RB>> Texas. "Hunting" in this case meant shooting at snakes and the like.
 RB>> Never hit one that I know of. Otherwise I, like most others, just
 RB>> shot at targets or bottles and enjoyed the noise and breaking
 RB>> bottles.

 MvdV> I know that you were raised in an armed society. You are not
 MvdV> unbiassed.

And you were raised in an unarmed society. You are not unbiased. And that
is out of your own ignorance.

 RB>>  - which, incidently, were also originally weapons of war. Ever hear
 RB>> of "Congreve rockets"?

 MvdV> That may be so, but todays fireworks, the ones one can buy in the
 MvdV> store at the end of the year, are pretty useless as weapons.

So, you're saying that you've never heard of or even seen a Congreve
rocket. The Chinese used rockets attached to arrows and spears 500 years
before the Brit, Congreve, re-invented them.

 RB>> Not a bit of ideology in that, but a lot of youthful fun making
 RB>> noise and breaking bottles.

 MvdV> You consider it fun because that was how it was where you were born
 MvdV> and raised. Peole who grew up in cultures without weapons see it
 MvdV> different.

Yeah, even going so far as to state things that aren't true.

 RB>> But aside from that, one thing you and others living in Europe never
 RB>> seem to realize is the fact that gun possession is part of the US
 RB>> Constitution,

 MvdV> So what? Did that come from God?

Now that you mention is, yes. It is a God given right to protect yourself,
your family and your possessions. It used to be rocks, then clubs and
eventually bow and arrow, but then the gun came along. In Europe, the
peasants weren't allowed guns because the nobles reserved all game for
themselves. All the power they possessed was because the peasants weren't
allowed to have guns. Eventually that led to the demise of a few million
people because they didn't have guns to thwart attacks on them because of
their religious beliefs.

 MvdV> No, it didn't.

Wrong.

 MvdV> It was the people that wrote the constitution,

And those people recognized the God given rights of the people. The 2nd
amendment to that Constitution isn't just about the right to have guns.

 MvdV> they can change it if they want.

The majority don't wish to change it.

 MvdV> Obviously they do not want that.
 MvdV> ...
 MvdV> because the majority still believes violence is the ultimate
 MvdV> solution to every problem.

Turning the other cheek went out with Christ...people not having guns is
why Europe doesn't have as many jews as it could have.

 RB>>  and was put there for a good reason if you consider the history of
 RB>> the US. Try imagining unarmed settlers going west in the 1800s...

 MvdV> That was two hundred years ago. We live in the third millennium
 MvdV> now.

It's as viable today as it was then. Sometimes I think even moreso.

 RB>> Now, times have changed since then, but there are still places in
 RB>> the States that are pretty wild and wooly. I've heard that you
 RB>> _must_ carry a rifle in some places in Europe (northern parts of
 RB>> Scandanavia)

 MvdV> I think you heard wrong.

It's not a good idea to go into the North Woods, or any remote area for
that matter, without a firearm. If for nothing else, you may be able to
use it to fetch wild game if you get lost and have to stay a few days
before you're rescued. Shooting a rabbit is much easier than having to run
one down and catch it with your hands.

 RB>> So does that mean that people in northern Scandanavia also believe
 RB>> that all conflicts can be solved by violence?

 MvdV> Wrong presumption --> wrong conclusion.

Actually it's a very good point. Does owning a firearm mean that the
people of remote areas are prone to violent conflict with others?  The
facts support a no reply to that question. Something you seem to always
overlook.

                R\%/itt



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