Text 14400, 118 rader
Skriven 2008-04-23 09:37:54 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 14353 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Financial systems (was: Property prices)
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Roy Witt wrote to Robert Bashe on Tuesday April 22 2008 at 10:23:

RB>> In fact, I only use checks for people I don't like and want to cause
RB>> trouble... although checks exist in Germany, they aren't used much
RB>> and a direct account transfer must legally be credited to the
RB>> recipient's account within three business days of being made.

RW> What I find wrong with that is; what if you had a monetary setback and
RW> you needed to use that money for an emergency. Say you use enough to
RW> nearly wipe out your balance. Then along comes that instant transfer
RW> and you're now paying fees for not having the money to transfer.

No, the systems in the USA and Germany are different in that respect too. In
the States, "overdraft privileges" are hard to come by and are often dependent
on you having a savings account or credit card that can be charged for an
overdraft. One of the reasons for that is that it's so easy to "disappear" in
the States, since there is no legal system of residence registration.

There is in Germany, and so the risk to a bank that you overdraw and simply
disappear is much less. That is reflected in the system.

In Germany, banks give you - after a certain grace period when you open an
account, assuming a good credit rating and if you have a regular source of
income (salary) - an automatic overdraft credit line generally amounting to
three times your monthly salary. You can overdraw your account, either in cash
or by paying bills, up to this limit without prior permission or even informing
the bank, and the only cost you incur is the overdraft loan interest (around
12%), calculated daily. When your account is back to a balance of EUR 0.00, you
stop paying overdraft loan interest.

If you want to exceed this credit line in a specific case, you can ask the bank
to permit this and if your credit rating is good and the reason acceptable, you
get an additional credit line at a higher rate of interest. But normally the
overdraft credit line is plenty enough. At my bank, I have around EUR 3,000 as
an overdraft credit line, but rarely use more than a few Euro of that, and even
that on a very temporary basis.

This is a very convenient system, since you don't have to pay so much attention
to your exact balance when you pay bills - a small overdraft isn't a big deal.

RB>> Very simple and convenient, as well as cheap (most banks now charge
RB>> nothing for transfers made via the Internet).

RW> Right. When that $1.35 appeared on my account, all internet
RW> transactions were shut down. My plastic was no longer any good. The
RW> only way to get cash was to make a visit to the bank. They issued
RW> another plastic card, but it didn't arrive until 5 days later.

That would not happen in Germany. If the $1.35 were a direct debit, you would
simply call the bank and ask them to reverse the charge, as it was not
authorized. It would hardly be a check here, since practically no checks are
used. And if it were a direct account transfer from your account, that would
mean that someone had gotten not only your password to access the account, but
also had access to your transaction codes - something that is theoretically
possible, but without your help (phishing) practically very unlikely. And here
too, you would call the bank and the police in that order. Nothing like what
you describe would happen without you personally shutting down the account.

RB>> As for Internet transfers, the systems here are much more secure than
RB>> those in the States...

RW> You still have to enter those codes online.

Right, either on a secure page or with RSA encryption using HBCI.

RW> Security isn't in the number of codes you have to remember and enter.
RW> It helps, but it sounds like one big hassle to me.

A certain amount of hassle is unavoidable if you want security. The systems
American banks use to access an account online are simpler than here, but as I
say, that's reflected in the ease of misuse.

Aside from that, who says you have to remember everything? I keep the codes I
need on a USB memory stick and only insert it when I need them. As for the TANs
(transaction numbers), you either get them in a list or you get a little
calculator from the bank. I personally don't use the SMS system, since I don't
normally use a cell phone and frankly am skeptical about sensitive data being
transmitted by radio (to a cell phone), although I don't know of any specific
case where this was a problem.

RB>> Or, in Germany, you can also Internet bank using HBCI (Home Banking
RB>> Computer Interface) - an English name but a German system - which
RB>> operates using public and private passwords to "public key" encrypt
RB>> the transmissions to and from your bank...

RW> Sounds like it's much better than the former, though.

It is, much more secure and, once set up, simple as well. My main bank offers
this and I use it every day. I only wish all the banks here offered the system.

RW>>> I use a Credit Union for banking, as the percentage of return is
RW>>> higher than any bank. It is modern enough to offer bill paying
RW>>> online, which I did for a while. It became such a hassle that I
RW>>> stopped that and bought blank checks and print them here, using
RW>>> software that keeps track of them.

RB>> What was the hassle?

RW> They required 5 debit accounts to be paid. I don't have that many. So,
RW> they charged a fee of $5 for the service. I stopped using it and
RW> months later while perusing my statement, noticed that they were still
RW> charging me $5 for something I wasn't using. I stopped that right away
RW> by canceling the service.

Ridiculous! Since when does a bank charge for so-called "electronic payment"?
("So-called" because in the States this only means that the bank issues and
sends a paper check to your creditor after you enter the data electronically
via the Internet - the payment is NOT transferred electronically as the name
would imply.)

The ones I know - specifically the Fifth Third in Cincinnati, where my sister
banks - offers this free of charge. And there are NO charges for debit
accounts.

Cheers, Bob

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