Text 14766, 103 rader
Skriven 2008-04-30 23:39:36 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
  Kommentar till text 14310 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Thought crime...again
=============================
Hello Michiel.

21 Apr 08 21:21, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff,

 MV> On Sunday April 20 2008 22:09, you wrote to Joe Delahaye:

 JD>>> Well, I guess here we disagree.  If I do something here, that is
 JD>>> quite legal in Canada but illegal in some part of the USA,
 JD>>> should I be prosecuted for that and sent to whatever part of the
 JD>>> USA it is illegal in?

 JS>>      No. Hypotheticaly, If you do something that involves someone
 JS>> or something in the US. And that action is illegal in the US
 JS>> relating to that person or thing. Then, if you were to travel to
 JS>> the US you would be arrested.

 MV> And you know very well that if the shoe is on the other foot the US
 MV> would not stand for it. Have you forgotten the "The Haugue Invasion
 MV> Act"?

     Are we talking about someone (Joe citizen) traveling to Canada or
to the Netherlands and breaking a law there or are we talking about crimes
commited by the US military?

     If you are going to change the rules abruptly you should really let
people know.


 JS>>      I think that goal here isn't to "Push US laws on other
 JS>> countries". The goal as I see it is to try to protect children in
 JS>> the US. The goal is to announce to everyone that if they act on
 JS>> their desire to exploit, victimize, or have sex with a minor
 JS>> child here. They will be arrested.

 MV> And what if our goal was to protect Dutch citizens. To protect them
 MV> from eing killed or maimed by fire arms. So we make a law that makes
 MV> it illegal for any citizen in the world to posses and handle firearms.

    Your law ends at your border Michiel. Just like US laws end at our
border. Try sending the Dutch police to other countries to enforce that
law. The key to your better understanding of what people are trying to
explain to you is in your own statement.

    The US is enforcing it's laws on anyone that breaks US laws on US soil.
US LEA's will not goto other countries and enforce our law there on foreign
soil. The reality Michiel doesn't support your fixated view of the US forcing
it's laws on other countries.

 MV> After all having the gun shows intent to use it

     Possibly.

 MV> and people that travel to The Netherlands show intent to use it
 MV> against Dutch citizens.

     *IF* they were to step foot onto Dutch soil with a gun or had aquired
a gun there after their arrival there and taken some action toward a Dutch
citizen. Then I would be more likely to agree with you.

 MV> So we arrest every foreigner that ever owned a gun.

     And your way of showing intent would be????


     The only intent that ownership of a gun shows is the intent to
own a gun.

     I have a number of guns here. What intent to harm a Dutch citizen
have I shown anyone?


 MV> No problem I take it?

 JS>>     There is indeed growing cooperation amoung differant
 JS>> countries regarding international sex tourism. Many countries
 JS>> have passed new laws or are considering amendments to their
 JS>> existing laws to address the sexual exploitation of children and
 JS>> hold offenders responsible. I think you will find that some day
 JS>> it will no longer be a matter of "The US pushing it's laws on
 JS>> others". It will be a matter of the same thing being illegal in a
 JS>> growing number of countries.

 MV> While exploitation of children is illegal here as well, I very much
 MV> doubt it will ever become illegal here to show intent to have sex with
 MV> a fourteen year old....

     That I think will depend on the cultural differances in how differant
countries look at sex, age, consent, Etc. I.E, two people having consensual
sex with one being young. Versus the explotation or abuse of a child by an
adult.


 MV> Cheers, Michiel

 MV> --- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Jeff

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
 * Origin: Twin_Cities_Metronet - region14.us (1:14/5)