Text 16297, 96 rader
Skriven 2008-05-28 06:23:44 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 16272 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Casus belli
===================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday May 28 2008 at 00:51:

 RB>> I figure if you want an enemy, it's not hard to find one in this
 RB>> world, regardless of who you are.

MV> The sad truth is that the west has made a lot of enemies over the
MV> years.

And now the moslems are making up for lost time. Why should only _we_ make
enemies? As usual, it's the reasonable people who suffer for the attitudes and
acts of extremists.

MV>>> Anyway, what we are doing now is not working.

RB>> Indeed. You can't talk to mindless fanatics.

MV> How do you know they can not be talked to, if you flayly refuse to
MV> talk to them?

You have the tables turned the wrong way here, Michiel. Since when have
extremist groups like Hamas and al Quaida - or the Taliban for that matter -
signalized any willingness whatever to "talk"? They scream they're going to
drive you into the sea, they bomb and shoot people whom they don't even
personally know, much less suffer anything from - and when you _try_ to talk,
they either scream you down or worse.

Your mistake is in assuming extremists _listen_. THEY want to talk - but only
to repeat their demands that you do eactly as they want - but they have no
interest whatever in listening to your side.

MV> Too late to isolate them, we have meddled too much and too long, and
MV> we can not eliminate them either.

You know, it seems to me you put this "I am guilty" sign on a chain over your
neck a little too readily.

MV> "Eerwraak". Yes we have that here too. Of course it can not be
MV> tolerated. When they are here in our country they have to obey our
MV> rules. It has nothing to do with us intruding on *their* territory
MV> however.

All they have to do is tell us to go home and then they can drink their oil
instead of the champagne they buy with the money we give them.

RB>> That's the kind of people I'm talking about,

MV> It has been part of their culture fo centuries....

Who gives a shit? Then let them live where it's acceptable to beat up women and
children, and not here.

RB>> and my attitude is to jail them for 10 years and then deport them
RB>> back to where they came from, with NO return ticket to Europe.

MV> How is that going to help solve the Palestinian problem?

How is it going to stop global warming? Same difference.

Look, _we_ have to behave the way _they_ want in _their_ countries. Just try to
go out on the street as a woman in Saudi Arabia, Iran or Afghanistan without a
head scarf, or in Saudi Arabia to drive a car yourself, and you'll see what I
mean. So why do you put on this "I am guilty" shoe and "we have to be tolerant"
when I don't ask or beg, but _demand_ they adhere to _our_ rules when they're
in _our_ countries?

As for the so-called "Palastinian problem", it will go away the second the
screaming and waving of Kalashnikovs stops, and _reasonable_ people finally
manage to talk to each other.

In other words, and the way things have gone since 1947, not in your or my
lifetime, and maybe not at all. Alone the geographical separatuion of the West
Bank and Gaza are deadly for any independent Palastinian state - quite to
ignore the probability, as things stand, that it would simply be a base for
terrorism in the middle east. And Israel is not going to agree to cutting
itself in half to give the Palastinians a corridor through the country. About
the onle real possibility would be for Israel to annex Gaza, give the
Palastinians extra land bordering on the West Bank in return and clear out. And
then build a wall 20 feet high on the border.

Chances of that happening: how about "zero"?

RB>> Another possibility might be to give a few woman weapons, strip such
RB>> "honorable" men naked and leave them together in a locked room for a
RB>> few minutes. But that would probably be too brutal for our European
RB>> sensibilities, although the poetic justice appeals to me.

MV> It does not appeal to me. It wold be stooping to their level and by
MV> that we have already lost.

Fighting fire by standing around until the building is consumed is not very
constructive either.

Cheers, Bob

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