Text 19689, 102 rader
Skriven 2008-08-16 08:06:20 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 19664 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Morality and law
========================
Roy Witt wrote to Robert Bashe on Friday August 15 2008 at 14:51:

RB>>>> Secret wiretaps without judicial approval or review (not even that
RB>>>> of a secret judge)?

RW>>> Never happened to US citizens.

RB>> Not only did Bush admit this was his current practice, but he stated
RB>> that he intended to continue it. Congress grumbled that the executive
RB>> was pre-emptimg the powers of the legislative, but did nothing.

RW> That fact is, he has those powers and the Congress doesn't.

Actually, that's not true. Secret wiretaps, by law, are supposed to be ordered
by a "secret judge" whose judgements are not made public, but nonetheless exist
and are binding. Bush simply disregarded this, which is against the law, but
when the fact became public, he not only defended the practice but stated he
intended to continue it. And Congress, which could have stopped him, grumbled
but did nothing.

Don't you remember the flap? This was about a year and a half ago.

RB>> Even now, the democrats are so scared they'll be accused of being
RB>> "soft on terrorism" that they are sometimes even more hardline than
RB>> the republicans.

RW> They're not scared, they have no grounds and they know it.

They're scared, Roy. Everybody's scared spitless that there could be a repeat
of 9/11 and no politician in his/her right mind will do anything that could be
considered - in any way, shape or form - "soft" on crazies who do such things.
The main problem is only that a large number (call it "millions") of perfectly
normal people suffer in the process.

What we now have is a little like if Congress would ban cars because of the
many thousands of highway deaths each year - more, incidently, than in all the
terrorist attacks to date.

RW> If they had any balls, they'd go ahead and defund the Iraq War to stop
RW> the Prez...

Can't do it at this point. The US has a tiger by the tail and can't let go.

RW> ... or impeach him.

Not worthwhile at this point. By the time things came to a vote, he'd be out of
office anyway.

RB>> The whole atmosphere is one of fear and suspicion.

RW> LOL! Ever hear of a Mexican Standoff? The Dems are waiting and hoping
RW> they'll have the WH and a majority in January. Then, they'll do the
RW> same as the Prez has done.

I wasn't thinking merely of the president and congress.

RB>>>> Concentration camps outside the USA to avoid the need to obey US
RB>>>> law?

RW>>> US Concentration camps? That's rediculous.

RB>> I didn't write "extermination camps". Get real.

RW> That's still rediculous, this even more.

I only wish it were, Roy.

RW>>> Gitmo is a retirement community, where those being held are treated
RW>>> better than American criminals held in American prisons.

RB>> And I thought you were relatively well informed up to now.

RW> You must have some inside knowledge that supercedes what every one
RW> else knows.

You know, I've always been suspicious of these things that "everyone knows"...
often enough "everyone" turns out to have been totally mistaken. But in this
case, all you have to do is read the reports - papers, the Net and the
newscasts - to get a pretty good picture of what's going on.

RB>> If you are, you're sure not thinking when you write such patently
RB>> untrue things.

RW> Those are facts. Live with them.

I have to live with facts as much as you do, Roy, but I don't necessarily
accept what you call a fact as the truth, any more than you do with me or
anyone else. Everyone draws his own conclusions from what he sees and hears.

RW> Until there's a way to force the more qualified people to run for
RW> office, that's all we'll ever get for choices. Of course, a pay raise
RW> for the President might work wonders.

A legal cap on election expenses would be even more useful. That way people who
don't happen to be millionaires or friends of millionaires might also have a
chance to be elected - and on the basis of merit, not of the money they have or
can raise.

Cheers, Bob

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