Text 20485, 124 rader
Skriven 2008-09-05 13:13:14 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
  Kommentar till text 20473 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: Echotag Madness
=======================
Hello David.

04 Sep 08 17:54, you wrote to me:

 DD> Jeff Smith -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>>> It is impossible to enforce them. People have to choose to be
 DD>>> guided by them (or not). [...]

 JS>>      Where in Policy 4 does it say, suggest, refer, or state that
 JS>> any or all of Policy 4 is optional and that Policy 4 is only
 JS>> meant as a set of guidelines?

 DD> Right after it mentions that all things in Policy must be followed
 DD> word for word blindly without any conscious thought what-so-ever. Did
 DD> you miss it? [...]

    It is clear that you choose to read Fidonet policy with the attitude
that it is up to reader to decide if any part of the document should
apply to them. Somehow you seem to think that will work. Given the chance
people will usually decide that it doesn't apply to them. But that does
or should apply to the other guy.

    Policy 4 was created for a reason David. It was IMO created as a set
of policies and procedures to follow to maintain and manage Fidonet.
What effect do you think there would be if we all treated P4 as optional?

 DD>>> As I said, Policy is not etched in stone it is just a guideline
 DD>>> document - look at all those silly make believe scenarios it
 DD>>> contains...

 JS>>      I will be the first to admit that P4 is seriously out of
 JS>> date and needs to be updated to reflect todays technologies.
 JS>> Regardless David of the fact that you choose to want to be a
 JS>> member of a network but don't want to be limited by it's
 JS>> policies. Policy 4 is the document that establishes policy for
 JS>> this network we call Fidonet.

 DD> Do you consider the word "policy" to be synonymous with the word
 DD> "law"? I understand it as " a course of action to be pursued". No
 DD> mention is made of catching...

    I look at P4 as a set of policies and procedures to follow to maintain
Fidonet. A set of policies that to be effective need to be applied fairly
and equally to all members of this network.

 DD> [...]
 DD>>> You may have "agreed to abide", the *C structure certainly
 DD>>> wasn't that draconian here. Here in the free world it is just a
 DD>>> hobby, not a religious order.



 JS>>      Think about it David. Take this Fidonet hobby. Add to it
 JS>> thousands of people from many different nations and cultures.

 DD> Thousands??? Are you in the same Fidonet that I'm connecting to?

    I would imagine. Currently there are about 4600 nodes in this
particular Fidonet. Which would still (For awhile yet) constitute
thousands.

 JS>> Do you really think
 JS>> that such a hobby would be possible to exist without collapse or
 JS>> without total anarchy unless there existed a set of policies or
 JS>> rules that provided structure to the network? Policy 4 exists for
 JS>> a reason and that reason is more than your "set of guidelines to
 JS>> be interpreted as need arrives".

 DD> Fidonet IS an anarchy! Those who choose not to conform (with regards
 DD> to technical connectivity) don't connect. All else is fair game.

     And why do you suppose Fidonet has/is become an anarchy? Could it
in part be the attitude of some that everything is "Fair game"?


 DD>>>>>  so that we might get our shit together a little more smoothly

 JS>>>>     I think that was part of the goal of P4.

 DD>>> A guideline - not a way of life.

 JS>>      It is what it is David. A policy that along with the
 JS>> nodelist defines what Fidonet is. Think about what Fidonet would
 JS>> be like if it even still existed without a policy document to
 JS>> define what Fidonet was, what it's structure consisted of. Policy
 JS>> 4 is essentially the set of procedures which have been developed
 JS>> over time to manage the Fidonet network.

 DD> The only compulsory parts of Policy ate the technical bits on inter
 DD> connectivity. Without those the "non-conformer" does not connect and
 DD> there is no issue. The rest is just social guidelines. [...]
 >>  JS>>     Again, that's how you choose to look at those documents.

 DD>>> Exactly, I have choice! That's what living in the free world is
 DD>>> about. YMMV.

 JS>>      We all have choices. If I join a radio club I agree to abide
 JS>> by the policy, rules, guidelines of that club. I would be like
 JS>> choosing to live in a town but want to be able to consider the
 JS>> laws of that town optional.

 DD> Policy is NOT law. If it was it would have been called "Fidonet Law".
 DD> It wasn't, it was called "Policy".

      As a voluntary member of Fidonet. Fidonet policy to be effective
needs to be apply to all members. We can continue to argue what name we
choose to call it David. Again, it is what it is. A set of policies/rules/
procedures to manage this network. It is a document that helps define this
network.

 DD> --

 DD> regards

 DD> David

 DD> ---
 DD>  * Origin: 27S29'21.34"  153E7'34.96" (3:640/305)

Jeff

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 * Origin: Twin_Cities_Metronet - region14.us (1:14/5)