Text 21972, 100 rader
Skriven 2008-10-16 14:23:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
Ärende: Socialism in the US of A
================================
Hello Ross,

On Wednesday October 15 2008 21:32, you wrote to me:

 RC>>> Hong Kong was a British possession, ceded back to the people it
 RC>>> was taken from, hopefully someday, Spain will get Gibraltar back.

 MV>> And Cuba will get back the Gitmo Hotel?

 RC> Gitmo was leased to the US by the (then) Govt of Cuba, at the time, we
 RC> pay them for the usage of that territory,

When was the last time the rent was actually paid? How much was paid? In what?

 RC> all that it would take for us to leave is for us to say we are going
 RC> to leave, which would break the lease.

What if Cuba wants to terminate the "lease"? What if the politeley asked you to
leave? Would you go?

 RC> Unlike Gibraltar or Hong Kong, Gitmo was not seized as a possession.

Oh, cm'on Ross, Guantanomo Bay is de factor occupied territory.

 RC>>> Would you choose to live under Communist rule?

 MV>> I have been across the iron curtain when it still existed. I have
 MV>> seen
 RC> [..]
 MV>> see. It was not all bad.

 RC> I should have known, since Socialism is so interwoven in your society.

You should get rid of that narrow minded view that there is something
inherently wrong with socialism. Not everyone in the world believes that the US
role model is the Nirwana. Live with it.

 MV>> Communism as it once existed does not exist any more. Even the last
 MV>> bastion of classic communism - Cuba - now allows its citizens to have
 MV>> InterNet. Yes China is not a democracy western style. But is is not
 MV>> the communist country it was under Mao either.

 RC> and yet, the Taiwanese have led lives, many for as long as you and I
 RC> have been alive, all of their lives, why would they surrender that,

Why can you only see it in terms of "surrender"? Dis the East Germans
"surrender" their way of life when Germany re-united? Did the West Germans
"surrender"their way of life?

 RC> unless reunification meant that mainland China would become like them?

Why is it that you can only think in terms of "them becoming like us"? Think
out of the box. Do you really consider iot totally unthinkable that under some
circumstances it might be to our advantage "to become like them"

 RC> Do I have to remind you of mainland China's human rights difficulties?

Do I have to remind you of the USA's human rights diffuculties? In case you
forgot: "Abu Graib"...

No country is perfect. Does not mean people can not be happy and live
meaningful lives.

 RC>>> It is countries like us that has enabled their economy.

 MV>> Yeah sure. And that medicine man in Timbatchamegogo makes the sun
 MV>> rise every morning....

 RC> If they couldnt export, where would they be, dont be naive..

In China of course, where else?

Yes, export is a relevant factor in China's economie. But vialble economies
without export are perfectly possible. Look at Switezerland. What do they
export? Cookoo clocks and chocolat. Are the Swiss undeduacted people who live
in poverty? C'mon...

 RC>>> How many things considered a technology item around you now,
 RC>>> isnt made there Michiel?

 MV>> Lots of stuff around here made in China.... True..

 RC> and why not in the Nederlands or other places in at least the EU?

Thers is also lots of stuff around that is made in the EU.

 RC>>> China exports to more countries than just the USA.

 MV>> Exactly. They do not depend on the US for their exports.

 RC> We are their biggest customer..

I doubt that, but even if it is so, what makes you think they will go on
forever with filling your shelves in return for what is Monopoly money?


Cheers, Michiel

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