Text 31266, 67 rader
Skriven 2009-04-12 10:15:38 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 31223 av Peter Knapper (3:772/1.0)
Ärende: Bank Security
=====================
Peter Knapper wrote to Robert Bashe on Sunday April 12 2009 at 12:18:

RB>> If you would continue "and exchange the card" I would have no
RB>> problems understanding or believing. But I have great difficulty in
RB>> believing that, for example Mastercharge and Visa (to name only two)
RB>> have totally different systems for each country: in the one, you must
RB>> exchange the card for another to change the ATM PIN, and in the
RB>> other, this is not necessary.

PK> Then believe it, because that is how it is done here.

Have you done this, or do you work for Master/Visa, that you know this? I find
it very difficult to believe.

RB>> Consider the fact that alphanumeric ATM PINs - in which I still don't
RB>> believe, particularly not after reading Roy's definition (merely
RB>> mnemonics derived from phone dials) - would be useless in Germany.

PK> Consider that it is posible to have Multiple PINS on a card, one
PK> numeric only, another Alpha-Numeric. The PIN that is valid is
PK> determined by the processing method within each country.

Same question as above. Making a system more complex makes it more vulnerable
to attack, and if anything is a good attack point, multiple PINs would qualify.

RB>> You would not be able to get money from your accounht simply because
RB>> there are no alphabetic keyboards on ATMs in Germany. Not much sense
RB>> in that.

PK> Think harder about how it could work (clue above)....;-) Note that In
PK> NZ, the card "owner/issuer" is the Bank, whereas VISA & Mastercard are
PK> services added to the Banking card card by the Bank.

Here in Germany, we have bank cards you can use to withdraw money from an
account (MAESTRO). AND there are Master/Visa cards which can be either debit or
credit cards, not that the difference is obvious when making internet
purchases, as the charge is never made immediately, only at the next invoicing.

These are two completely different card types. But you can't change the ATM PIN
on either.

Is NZ totally different in that respect?

RB>> Which is the kind of thing Roy described, and is NOT alphanumeric,
RB>> but simply a mnemonic such as those common for phone numbers in the
RB>> States. The actual number you dial IS a number, not a letter.

PK> Try thinking OUTSIDE your country....;-)

I am, but I _do_ know what goes on in the USA and Germany, to say nothing of
France.

In fact, you MUST enter your ATM PIN in France when you buy gas at a filling
station after hours (office closed, only the tank works). And there is NO way
you can enter letters. Only numbers.

I see great confusion between alphabetical mnemonics and the numerical PIN
codes. Some people appear to think ATMs everywhere are the same as phones in
the USA, where you, for example, can get a "number" from some dealer such as
"800-BIGDEALZ". This is the same kind of confusion Roy is succumbing to when he
claims you can have alphanumeric ATM PINs. They aren't, of course, but the
letters can be translated into the numbers which form the real PIN.

Cheers, Bob

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