Text 31582, 228 rader
Skriven 2009-04-21 10:11:09 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 31514 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Crazies
===============
20 Apr 09 10:58, Robert Bashe wrote to Roy Witt:

 RB>>> Roy, "you" in English is neutral and _can_ mean you as a person OR
 RB>>> the general public.
 RW>> Personally, in this medium I tend to stay away from using 'you' in a
 RW>> context that could mean you personally or you all. As you should
 RW>> know, when a Texan addresses one person, it's y'all, but to the
 RW>> general public it's 'all y'all'...
 RB> OK, understood with a smile. Still...
 RB>>> I wasn't writing about you personally here either.

 RW>> And I answered the question in the 'nuetral' fashion that you see
 RW>> above. If you can't be more specific, then I suggest that you don't
 RW>> bother.

 RB> And if you have to be so prickly, then don't answer. Not everything
 RB> is directed toward you personally.

 RB>>>>> Roy, you seem like the computer expert who is trying to tell a
 RB>>>>> modern teenager how to write a batch file. As far as I can see,
 RB>>>>> you're simply assuming too much.

 RW>>>> If you could see what you're writing from my point of view, you'd
 RW>>>> know better. My interest in firearms didn't stop when I attained
 RW>>>> adulthood.

 RB>>> Which has what to do with what I wrote above? We're still not
 RB>>> talking about you personally.

 RW>> "Roy, you seem like the computer expert" is NOT directed toward me?

 RB> You are mixing subjects badly.

I think it's you who is doing that.

 RB> Firearms are _not_ the same as computers, regardless of what
 RB> politicians might assume.

But it was you who brought up computers in the midst of a firearm
discussion.

 RB>  Or did you intend to write "computers" instead of "firearms"? Then
 RB> we have a classical misunderstanding.

The latter is true, but I never wavered from firearm discussion.

 RW>> Guns aren't the problem...they don't pull their own triggers or aim
 RW>> themselves at innocent people. Considering the billions of guns in
 RW>> private hands in this country, I think the record shows plenty of
 RW>> restraint by those who have them, but none whatever of those few who
 RW>> abuse the firearm laws.

 RB> On the one hand, I tend to agree. On the other, I think about people
 RB> like my sister carrying a loaded gun around. She's neither
 RB> bloodthirsty nor a felon, but the thought still scares me.

One thing about the human mind, it can be taught to think in a manner that
makes sense. Not always, but most everyone can learn it.

 RB> God alone knows what anyone will do in a stressful situation, and
 RB> after you've (neutral) pulled the trigger, you (again neutral) can't
 RB> put the bullet back in the cartridge.

There was a 20yo+ gal who was having lunch with mom and dad in a suburban
McDonald's here in Texas. She had a carry permit, but the sign at the door
said no firearms allowed. She obeyed the law and put her firearm in the
trunk of her car. While they were having lunch, a gunman began shooting up
the place. She and her parents were hiding behind an overturned table and
all she could think about was the safety of her parents and making her way
to get her pistol. She tried to get her mother and father to follow her
out the door, but mom clung to pop and they got lost in the confusion.
When she returned with her pistol, she not only found the gunman dead by
a self inflicted gunshot, but mom and pop were shot to death too, mom
still clinging to pop. You may have heard of her, she testified before
Congress about the right to carry.

 RW>> Issue guns to everyone, make knowing how to handle them and
 RW>> possessing them mandatory. Armed criminals will think more than
 RW>> twice about their next victim's chances of survival.

 RB> That's the other extreme. All I can say is that I'm no friend of
 RB> extremes.

There's a crime free city in Georgia that has such a law. No murders, no
robberies, no crime.

 RB>>> <Sigh> OK, I give up. You _will_ not understand that I'm not
 RB>>> talking about you and me personally, nor about "licensed" gun
 RB>>> owners, but about the idiots without a criminal record

 RW>> This is why I 'will' not understand what you're talking about,
 RW>> because th probablity of it happening is not the problem.

 RB> "It"? Guns sold to crazies with no criminal record? If I understand
 RB> you properly, I think you're nuts.

You obviously have been away too long to have an understanding of how it
works these days. Unlike 1959 or even 1968, you don't just waltz into a
gun shop and put your money on the counter and say; I'll take that one!

Only in a few states do you have to have a license/permit to BUY a gun.

OTH, everyone who wants to buy a firearm, including those with a license
or permit to buy (Illinois has such a law), must submit to a background
check. This isn't a privately administered background check, but a state
criminal records and FBI background check. Known mentally ill or crazies
are not allowed to buy any firearms.

On CNN last weekend, they had a special report on how crazies and
criminals get their firearms from a dealer. Someone who knows firearms
goes into a gun shop and talks to the salesman about looking at a few of
his specimans. When that person is satisfied with the choices he's made,
he calls in another person who has no criminal or mentally ill record to
do the paperwork. Most descriminating gun shop salesmen won't complete the
transaction, but there are some who will. Of course the ATF does a sting
operation like this all the time, but that doesn't stop all of those who
would violate the law.

 RB>>> who go to a gun store, buy a gun and proceed to shoot up the
 RB>>> neighborhood.

 RW>> That's the rub...deranged people may not manifest their crazyness
 RW>> for decades and then crack some time later. Criminals can't go to a
 RW>> gun store and buy a gun because they'd have to lie about their
 RW>> record on the federal and state forms that have to be filled out and
 RW>> submitted to the authorities, no exceptions. That's a felony in
 RW>> itself, meaning they can go back to prison just by telling a little
 RW>> white lie on those forms.

 RB> And when you're contemplating shooting up the neighborhood, what's a
 RB> lie on a form to you?

A great deal. To finish the transaction, you have to convince the dealer
before he'll continue. If he has any doubt, he won't.

 RB> Same in spades for people coming to the States and filling out these
 RB> silly immigration forms with questions like "I am coming to the USA
 RB> to sell drugs: yes/no". Do the idiots who write those forms have any
 RB> idea what real life is?

If your intent is to bypass that question with a no and then sell drugs
anyway, you've not only convicted yourself of lying to a Federal officer,
you've pretty much signed your own arrest warrant for anything else they
want to charge you with. Instead of being turned away at the gate, you'll
be imprisoned for a long time.

 RW>> If that makes them a three-time loser, they go to prison for life.

 RB> So what, if you/they are planning to murder someone anyway? Six one
 RB> way, half-dozen the other.

You would be surprised at how much two time losers are frightened of the
possibility of being incarcerated for the rest of their life. All it takes
is a third felony and that doesn't even have to be a violent felony. But,
you're not going to sway someone who is intent on killing another, even if
you cut off the use of their arms and legs.

 RB>>>>> My son plans to visit New York this summer (in a group). He's
 RB>>>>> handicapped (autistic). Should I warn him of anything specific?

 RW>>>> Stick with the group and he'll be fine as long as they're only out
 RW>>>> in the daylight.

 RB>>> That's comforting, a little like the advice people get in wildlife
 RB>>> parks in Africa where lions roam around unhindered. Hell, this
 RB>>> depressses me even more than I already was.

 RW>> Frankly, as an autistic, I wouldn't let him go to New York on his
 RW>> own without investigating the people in charge of the group. I'd
 RW>> make sure that he wasn't left to his own devices in walking around.

 RB> The group is OK and experienced, but the way you write it sounds like
 RB> a war's going on and that obviously worries me.

Here's an example of 'gang' mentality. In San Antonio this last weekend
and all this week, there is a carnival type of celebration going on called
'Fiesta'...Saturday nite, a fight between rival gang members broke out in
a parking lot. One stupid individual pulled out his gun and began to fire
shots into the air. No telling where the bullets came down, and fortunate
that no one was injured. Anyway, the gunman threw his firearm into the
bushes as the police arrived and ran into a parking garage. He was in
hiding for 3 hours before he finally emerged, only to be arrested by under
cover cops who had been waiting for him. This is probably not the only
such incident that happened over the weekend, but is an example of how
such things can happen without notice to innocent bystanders.

 RW>> A lot of Germans get a rude awakening when they come here. Before
 RW>> the state of Florida passed 'will issue' laws and the people were
 RW>> allowed to carry firearms, Europeon visitors were robbed and killed
 RW>> a lot in those days. Today the criminals don't know who's carrying.
 RW>> To help even more, the state no longer issues vehicle license plates
 RW>> that indicate that a car belongs to a rental agency.

 RB> The latter, as far as I'm concerned, being the most important factor.
 RB> Remember, my folks used to live in Florida, so I have a fair idea of
 RB> what went on there before rental vehicles weren't so obvious as such,
 RB> particularly when tourists unknowingly ventured into the "wrong"
 RB> neighborhoods. But stuff like that was mainly in Miami, not in the
 RB> Sarasota-Bradenton area.

Right, but it did happen outside of Miami, as one or two incidents that I
recall were further north.

 RW>> Do like I do and stay away from the big city trouble spots and
 RW>> everything will work out just fine.

 RB> No problem with me, but foreigners who may not even speak the
 RB> language can have big problems. I don't like big cities, anyway, be
 RB> they in Germany or the USA or anywhere else. At any rate, I'll
 RB> definitely talk to my son before he leaves.

I don't mind the big city so much as I mind the big crowds. I lived in the
big city for 38 years, although it started out as just a small navy town.
The longer I stayed, the bigger it got. Even though we lived in a gang
infested part of the city for a while, we were never affected directly.

 RW>> Stop all Americans from doing drugs and the cartels will dry up. No
 RW>> demand, no sale.

 RB> See what I'm writing Michiel.

                R\%/itt




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