Text 34216, 147 rader
Skriven 2009-07-04 04:57:34 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
  Kommentar till text 34070 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Saberi vs Blom
======================
Hello Michiel.

02 Jul 09 16:00, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff,

 MV> On Thursday June 25 2009 01:25, you wrote to me:

 MV>>> I beg to differ. Here gun addicts are considered dangerous. They
 MV>>> can kill people with their guns. That is why we have made laws
 MV>>> to re- strict gun addicts. But we do not go so far as to lure
 MV>>> gun addicts people from other countries into our jurisdiction so
 MV>>> that they can be stopped too.

 JS>>     So... Anyone owning or wanting to own a gun is a gun addict.
 JS>> I always thought an addict was someone with a compulsive desire.

 MV> And I always thought that child molestors are people that have
 MV> actually molested a child. Goes to shwo one can be in error when
 MV> applying one's own definitions to another culture,

   That the problem you run into Michiel when you try to apply your
sense of what is right and your definitions to other countries and
other cultures. I am not saying that our way here is any better or
any worse. Just that we look at how we choose to protect our children
a little differantly.

 JS>>  If so that leaves me a non-addict. Sorry Michiel. Here some are
 JS>> gun collectors.

 MV> By YOUR definition. HERE I aplly MY definition.

   And if I lived there your definition would be relevant. But I live
here Michiel where our definitions apply.

 JS>>  They do feel the desire to buy rare or unique firearms. But
 JS>> usually rarely if ever fire them. Are they automatically addicts?
 JS>> It's soo easy isn't it Michiel to label anyone that differs from
 JS>> YOUR idea of what is right an addict. He owns a gun so he MUST be
 JS>> an addict.

 MV> You owe more that one gun. Among them at least one hand gun. You
 MV> target practise with them, In my defintion that makes you a gun edict.
 MV> Arguing is useless as it is MY definition that applies to my
 MV> perception of you.

   You are free to your own opinion. And we all know that your opinion
could never be wrong. You have too many times made it clear what you
base your opinions on. We live in the US here and therefore our ways,
our laws, our opinions are wrong. Primarily because they don't agree
with your opinion of what is right.


 MV>>> No, Blom ciommunicated with what IN YOUR PERCEPTION was a child.

 JS>>     As well as his. If someone portrays themself as a child
 JS>> online and and others online respond. Who are those people
 JS>> responding to?

 MV> Who says the cop was percieved as a child by Blom? You say that, does
 MV> not mean it is so.

   Blom made that clear Michiel by his own actions. You are continuing
to want to reach conclusions and assumptions that are NOT supported by
the reality of what actually happened. Your argument and your opinion
lacks support. You are free to assume anything that will support your
particular opinion.

 MV> Is it impossible for you imagine Blom never gave the child/adult
 MV> matter any thought at all.

   Impossible? No. Likely, based on what he was contacting the "Child"
for? Yes. He communicated with a (Presented) child based on the current
definition of a child here. Here is where he traveled to meet the "Child"
and therefore here is where the laws and the definitions apply.

 MV> Yes the cop presented himself as 14 year old. But why should that
 MV> have given Blom the idea that the cop was presenting himself as a
 MV> child when HERE a 14 year old is not a child per se.

   The cop was presenting themself as a 14 year old which IS a child
here. Lets say I travel to your country with the intention of shooting
my handgun. I would likely be arrested there wouldn't I? And it would be
my ignorance and lack of common sense to not know or at least check on
the legality of my intended action in your country prior to traveling
there.

   Regardless of what Blom thought regarding the age of the presented
person. He traveled to this country to meet someone who IS a child
here. If I travel to your country I am obligated to abide by the laws
AND the definitions currently in effect there. Just as Blom was obligated
to abide by the laws AND definitions here.

 JS>> Blom responded to the child that he thought he was communicating
 JS>> with.

 MV> No Blom responded to what he was presented with.

   Correct. A child as defined here where he traveled to.

 JS>>  At what point did the LEO announce or make Blom aware that he
 JS>> was communicating with an adult let alone a adult LEO? Your claim
 JS>> Michiel that Blom didn't think he was contacting a child isn't
 JS>> supported by the reality of what happened.

 MV> What happened was that he came to meet someone. That he thought of
 MV> that as a chils is not supported by the facts.

   Wrong Michiel. It IS supported by the facts based on the definition
of a child HERE. As you state, Blom was presented with a 14 year old
which is a child here. Had he chose to meet a 14 year old on his home
soil for sex he might not have been arrested. Based on your definition.
But that is not what he chose to do.

 MV> But I see it is useless to argue with you about this point. Youe mind
 MV> is set.

    Ha.. And yours isn't??

 MV>>> Your repeated mention of the word "child" does not prove that
 MV>>> Blom thought he was trying top have sex with a chikd. It only
 MV>>> proves that YOU think he thought that.

 JS>>     Blom's actions show who he thought he was contacting.

 MV> No it doesn't. It only shows he thought he was going top meet someone
 MV> willing to have sex with him.

   Yes. And that someone was a 14 year old which is a child here.

 JS>>  Yor constant denial doesn't change that one little bit.

 MV> Your constant claims to the contrary do not change that one bit.

   In your mind THAT is probably true. But then the world doesn't exist
only in your mind and is not limited to your definitions of what is right
and what is wrong.

 MV> Cheers, Michiel

 MV> --- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Jeff

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
 * Origin: Twin_Cities_Metronet - region14.us (1:14/5)