Text 34221, 84 rader
Skriven 2009-07-04 14:41:41 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Saberi vs Blom
======================
Hello Bob,

On Saturday July 04 2009 08:34, you wrote to me:

 MV>> Dimitri Sklyaraov was invited for a conference in the US and
 MV>> arrested for doing just that.

 RB> He was _not_ arrested for attending the conference, Michiel.

Didn't say he was. He was arrested for reverse engineering and circumventing
limitations.

 MV>> You can say that the US does not enforce their laws outside US
 MV>> territory but the facts are different.

 RB> Michiel, what you describe is nothing new and nothing specific to the
 RB> States. I already told you about the American neo-Nazi who was invited
 RB> to Denmark, arrested there and extradited to Germany for his actions
 RB> in the States.

I know, but two wrongs do not make a right. Luring foreignres to one's
jursidiction and prosecuting them for something that is not illegal in the
country where they did it, is plain wrong.

 RB> The basis for his arrest, incidentally, was that his inflammatory
 RB> website was available in Germany over the Internet.

Lame excuse. If you do not like it that others exert their right of free speech
over the Internet, then do not make use of the internet. If you do use the
intermet, take the liabilities with the assets.

 RB> The main point is that persons who carry out an activity that is legal
 RB> where they live have no immunity against prosecution when they travel
 RB> to a country where the action is illegal.

Which is wrong.

But as I explained, it is a good reason to stay away from US territory. Hoping
that I am too small a fish to escape the radar, is not what I am going to
gamble on.

 RB> Your comparison of US gun owners being arrested for possession in
 RB> Europe begs the point that you have to have a gun in your possession
 RB> to be charged with illegal possession.

I was discussing the hypothetical situation that the law is changed so that gun
owners can be prosecuted when they leave the gun at home.

 RB> Owning one in a foreign country, assuming that could be proven in the
 RB> first place, is not illegal even for a European.

Indeed it is not, but we can change the law...

 MV>> Blom was eventually - after a plea bargain - convicted for
 MV>> "chatting with a minor about sex".

 RB> Which was the plea bargain. He could have refused and been charged
 RB> with a more serious offense, one that took place on American soil.

Refusing was not really an option. he would have spend 15 years in prsion
instead of two.

 MV>> Same with Dimitri Sklyaraov. His hacking activities took place in
 MV>> Russia, but he was nevertheless arrested in the US over it.

 RB> My memory is that he hacked programs or systems of American companies.

It was American software, (Adobe). AFAIK the systems that he worked on were in
Russia.

 MV>> There are numerous other examples of the US enforcing - or trying
 MV>> to enforce - their laws on the territory of other countries.

 RB> Although I agree the tendency exists - see some of the stuff Roy
 RB> writes - I still think you've picked bad examples to defend.

Bad examples or not, it is one of the reasons, I will not accept invitations to
go to the USA.


Cheers, Michiel

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