Text 4600, 155 rader
Skriven 2007-07-17 13:31:44 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
   Kommentar till text 4564 av Björn Forsström (2:203/614.61)
Ärende: R&R exchanging insults
==============================
Hello Björn.

17 Jul 07 08:15, you wrote to me:

 BF>>> If you or Roger did a good job as an editor, why not let you
 BF>>> keep it and then take up the question about being a moderator at
 BF>>> a later point.

 JS>>      Ok, first who would decide?

 BF> This was only a proposal to do something about the present locked
 BF> situation. I don't have the answers, maybe some kind of voting
 BF> procedure......?

     The selecting of a new editor has been done severals way in the past.
There have been outright selections by the current editor. There also have
been what I would call informal elections where candidates were suggested
and the current editor then selected from the qualified candidates. I don't
recall the users or the *C structure having an actual voting say in the
selection process other than suggesting candidates.

 JS>> Would this merely be a tactic to help in
 JS>> the defense of Felten or would this really be an attept to make
 JS>> this echo and Fidonews itself better? I know it sounds like I am
 JS>> totally, absolutely against Felten. That really isn't the case. I
 JS>> would rather work with Felten than insist that he leave. But he
 JS>> himself has made that next to impossible.

 BF> Yours and Rogers obstinacy about not submiting anything is just as
 BF> being as stubborn as he is. You all have your agenda and none is
 BF> giving anything up.

     I think Roger's choice (Which I understand) is more definite than
mine. In fact I was considering submitting and article on the subject
to try to expore both sides of the situation. There are always at least
two sides to consider even if we don't agree with the other side(s).


 BF>>> So far I really haven't understood why you think that The
 BF>>> Snooze is so important? What good does it do?

 JS>>      Now? Not nearly as much today but then look at the condition
 JS>> it is in.

 BF> But it can't be the editors fault that you and others refuse to send
 BF> in articles. That decision is yours.

     Yes, the decision to not submit articles is ours. The point that I was
making is that if the moderator (Moderator hat on or off) contributes through
his actions and/or words to people not wanting to submit articles. Then that
moderator must also bear some of the responsibility also.

 JS>> The Fidonews is still important and is a historic part of
 JS>> Fidonet.

 BF> History changes and perhaps it was important back when there were
 BF> thousands of nodes and points but that's not how it is today.

     I think that the Fidonews is as important as we try to make it. I
agree that the Fidonews is pretty much getting ignored these days. No
sense paying attention to something that one has gotten used to being
empty is there? I would ask people to think of the Fidonews and submit
an article regardless of the editor. Yes the problem with the editor
is still there and needs to dealt with. But the editor does not the Fidonews
make. Meaning that the primary concern should be putting some life back
into the Fidonews.

 JS>> The
 JS>> Fidonews and the Fidonet nodelist of course are what defines what
 JS>> Fidonet is. Yes, Fidonews is in disrepair but that can be changed
 JS>> given someone with the willingness to try. Will results be
 JS>> immediate? Most likely not but in time with sustained effort the
 JS>> Fidonews echo and the Fidonews can once again be something to
 JS>> admire about Fidonet instead of somthing to just ignore as is the
 JS>> case currently.

 BF> Fidonet is shrinking for every day and if you count the number of
 BF> people posting here, is it 20? I don't think they bother as much about
 BF> Fidonews as you do. With Shannon closing down and from what I read
 BF> Dale Ross' system have been down for weeks and Doc's Place might shut
 BF> down......

     Yes that is sad to see. But I can not see just giving up. That is not
to say or suggest that those mentioned above didn't have good reasons for
making the decisions that they did. Fidonet is still only a hobby and real
life should always take priority.

 BF>>>  Things can be discussed here without it and if you say that the
 BF>>> rules for FIDONEWS are like that, change the rules so it will
 BF>>> fit to what it is today.

 JS>>      As moderator I would have no problem discussing things in
 JS>> this echo that have been published in Fidonews. That is after all
 JS>> the intended purpose of this echo.

 BF> As I said, things change and we have to accept that.

 JS>> This echo should not be used to replace the Fidonews
 JS>> newsletter but instead to augment the Fidonews and provide a
 JS>> forum for expansion and discussion of ideas and thoughts raised
 JS>> in the Fidonews.

 BF> If you look around, this echo, win 95 and COOKING are almost the only
 BF> one with some kind that have something we can call traffic. Changing
 BF> this echo to something that would suit you and Roger would probably
 BF> kill it definatly.

     There would no doubt be a gradual traffic drop. But do not see it dying
out. Hopefully it would be more of a transition than an ending of traffic.


 JS>> This echo should not be allowed to be a free-for-all where
 JS>> people's only purpose appears to be to feed the chaos.

 BF> Tell that to the people that feed the chaos.

     Agreed. But shouldn't that have already been said to them? But when
the moderator adds to the chaos then everyone feels free to say and do what
the want.

 JS>> I would not rule with and iron
 JS>> fist as I am sure some would be likely to suggest. It would take
 JS>> time to earn the respect necessary to be effective. But I would
 JS>> hope that when people see that they would get treated the same if
 JS>> friend or foe. That they would accept moderations even if they
 JS>> did not agree with me and/or the moderation. I am the first to
 JS>> admit that I have flaws in both mind and attitude. A fact that I
 JS>> am sure would be pointed out posthaste.

 BF> A chain isn't stronger than its weakest link. Get rid of those and
 BF> you'll have a strong chain.

     All I can say is that I am working on it. <g>

 BF>>>  Everything else around us changes and today when Fido is
 BF>>> shrinking we just have to adjust us to it and accept that Fido
 BF>>> isn't what it used to be.

 JS>>      How effective has the attempts to make changes in Fidonet
 JS>> been? That should not keep us from trying even though we know
 JS>> what an uphill fight it would be.

 BF> Most have found a parking spot on their way up that hill and have
 BF> accepted the view since it's impossible to move a mountain.

     Taking a rest on the way up the is fine. But one has to stand up
and continue one trip up the hill at some point.

 BF> ---
 BF>  * Origin: . (2:203/614.61)

Jeff

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
 * Origin: Twin_Cities_Metronet - region14.us (1:14/5)