Text 5753, 137 rader
Skriven 2007-08-31 12:47:10 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Janis Kracht (1:261/38)
Ärende: Interzonal nodelist discrepancies
=========================================
Hello Janis,

On Thursday August 30 2007 10:49, you wrote to me:

 >> Maybe, maybe not. First, the smaller the window, the fewer late
 >> updates will arrive. if the window were small enough, one might even
 >> close it down. I.e. no longer accept updates during that time.

 JK> If what you are striving for is the same data between all Zones,

Yes, that is one of my objectives...

 JK> and there are still however small the number, differences in
 JK> additions/deletions, then what's the point?

That the fewer discrepencies the better.

 JK> JMO, but it seems a lot of bother (not the practice, but the idea) for
 JK> not a lot of difference... except that some new people (and we are
 JK> still seeing quite a few new nodes here in Zone 1)

We get new nodes too. Honestly compels me to add that very few of them are
really new, most of them are former sysops that come back.

 JK> could end up waiting longer to get listed if the RC 'missed' the new
 JK> window.

My second objective is to *reduce* the time between a new submission and the
time it appears in the Nodelist.

If you think the RC will more easily miss the new window, you are looking at it
from the wrong angle. What I propose to neaarow down is the window for the ZCs
interzonal exchange of segments. That does *not* reduce the RCs window. On the
contrary.


Present schedule                           Proposed new schedule

- Friday morning: nodelist release       - Friday 00:00 nodelist relaease
- Friday morning: Windows for RCs open   - Friday 00:01 New RCs window opens.
- Thursday evening: Window for RCs to be - Thursday 22:00: Window for RC to
  included in 'local' list closes          be incuded in 'local' list closes
- Wednesday morning. ZCs exchange segs   - Thursday 20:00 ZCs exchange segs.
- Tuesday night: Window for RCs to       - ThursdaY 18:00 Window for RCs to
  be included in 'global' lists closes   - be incuded in global lists closes.
- Friday afternoon: Windows for RC open  - Friday 02:00 RC windows open.

In the present situation the RCs window for inclusion in the next nodelist runs
from Friday morning to Tuesday night for inclusion in all zones list en from
Friday morning to Thursday evening for the list of the own zone.

In the proposed new schedule the RCs window will be fron Friday 00:01 to
Thursday 18:00 for all lists and till Thursday 22:00 for the local list. Both
windows for the RC will be *wider*. So new nodels will have *more* chance of
making it into the next list.

 >> I do not see how ISP problems are more of a problem with a different
 >> time schedule. It just shift a day or two. If during the "interzonal
 >> exchange window" a ZC is unable to distribute his segments, the
 >> others have to make do with last week's. Shifting the interzonal
 >> exchange from Tuesday night to Thursday night does not change that.

 JK> When there are problems contacting one of the systems who transfer the
 JK> ZC segments, then that smaller window makes the likelyhood of having
 JK> to use that old segment for a given Zone more likely..

Which is compensated by the new segment being newer if the transfer succeeds.

 JK> once again, I have to ask.. is the change you'd like to see really
 JK> going to change anything?

I think we are no doing as best as we can at the moment. yes, I think the
proposed changes would be an improvement.

 >> Other than that: there is nothing stooping the ZC' from exchanching
 >> segments o *both* Tuesday night and Thursday night.....

 JK> We do, on occasion do this already.  It would not take much of an
 JK> effort to do it every week. I'll bring it up to the other ZCs.

Ok.

 >> While we are brainstoming... why not take a bold step and go beyond
 >> the tradition of a weekly issued nodelist? Why do we only update
 >> nodelist once a week and use diffs? Because in the past it was
 >> expensive.

 JK> I'm quite sure it was also done this way because sysops "have a life"
 JK> outside of Fidonet, not just for the expense of it.

I do not see how running a robot every day instead of every week imterferes
with real life. It takes a bit of effeport to set it up, but if done properly
the only ones to actually to any manul labour are the NCs. They have to sit
behind the keyboard to manually make the changes. RCs and ZCs can have robots
do the job.

Yes, I know, you have been sitting in front of your screen every Friday morning
for qiuit some time to oversee and correct the process. But is go for it that
that ia a temporary arrangement and that you will once moder go into automatic
mode once the problems are solved.

 >> But now that cost is no longer a factor, at least not on the ZC
 >> level, why not update the nodelist every day? We could still
 >> distribute a weekly diff for those depending on POTS or other costly
 >> transport media, but why not issue a full nodelist every day for
 >> those having the benefit of almost free transport? That would solve
 >> most of the sync problems wouldn't it?

 JK> That is something that the ZCs would have to discuss.

I suggest that they do.

 JK> I don't see the 'problem' you do, Michiel.  What I do see however is
 JK> the chance that with some of the changes you are suggesting, at least
 JK> as far as the smaller window goes,

The window for submission does not get smaller, on the contrary, it gets wider.

 JK>  that new nodes might end up waiting longer to get listed and that
 JK> would not be good.

If done properly, it would be the reverse.

 >>> Geez.. just as I was typing the above, we lost internet over here
 >>> due to a thunderstorm :(

 >> Overhead wires?

 JK> Yes, unfortunately in this section of the US, overhead wires are the
 JK> norm..

Can't win them all...

Cheers, Michiel

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