Text 7461, 104 rader
Skriven 2007-11-03 08:34:32 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
   Kommentar till text 7454 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Al Qaeda set fires
==========================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Friday November 02 2007 at
21:38:

RB>> But if you believe that only the "old original" is the "real"
RB>> religion - and there appear to be a lot of muslims in the middle east
RB>> and elsewhere who take this attitude

MV> Are you sure about that? How reliable are the statistics. Sure, the
MV> fundamantalists get a lot of publicity, but how many are there really?

When you see the mobs attacking western institutions because of a few cartoons,
hear about the religious police in Saudi Arabia and the revolutionary guards in
Iran, when you read about riots because a mild version of Playboy is to be
published in Indonesia - who needs statistics? And anyway, I'm a scientist too,
but when someone says "a lot" I don't take that to be _precisely_ 86.67% of the
male population aged 15-50 ;-)

MV> Funny that just a few days ago, it came into the news that The
MV> Netherlands housed about half a million less muslims than what was
MV> assumed until recently. Until recentky it was assumed that all
MV> refugees coming from "muslim contries" are muslim. But that assumption
MV> was proven totally false. Many of them are not muslims.

Depends on what you call a "muslim country". Lebanon would be a good example
for a religious mix. But I would think most of the "muslim countries" in the
case of the NL would be from places like Indonesia, where there were earlier
colonies. And I'd like to know where the "other religions" come from in that
case.

RB>> - you insist on literal interpretations. It's presumably a little
RB>> like the "bible belt" christians in the States, except that they
RB>> don't go around throwing bombs.

MV> Not any more no. But it was not really all that long ago that
MV> Christian fundamantalists propagated spreading the word with the
MV> sword. There is no boig difference except that the Christians are
MV> ahead in the timeline. Well, they started 700 years earlier....

Which for my way of thinking is quite a while ago... as a matter of fact around
the time the muslims were fighting crusades to forcibly impose _their_ religion
on the middle east and into the Balkans and Spain.

MV>>> "The muslim world" does not exist. No more than the "Christian
MV>>> world" or the "Jewish world"

RB>> I disagree on all three, but particularly with respect to the muslims
RB>> and jews.

MV> Can you draw it on the map? If you mean "world" as a group of people,
MV> then maybe you have a point. Maybe.

A religious group doesn't (necessarily) imply a geographical location, as you
should be aware. And I'm reasonably sure you've heard of the jewish "diaspora".
MV> The Christians can no longer afford to fight among themselves. There
MV> are not enough of them left,they have no choice but to join forces.

Not enough of them left? Michiel, they presently rule the world - and things
will stay that way at least until the Chinese catch up to the Americans in
influence, economic and military power. Don't count on that happening tomorrow.

MV>>> Not everyone living in Turkey is a muslim.

RB>> According to Wikepedia:
RB>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Turkey
RB>> the figure is 99.0%. Mostly sunni muslims.

MV> And in Iran there are no homosexuals.

None that dare go public at any rate, the same as in Saudi Arabia. Is that
something new?

MV> I do not believe that either. Wikipedia is not a very reliable source
MV> of information.

But in this case presumably pretty accurate. If you don't believe it, go to
Turkey and try to build a church.

MV>>> Turkey is a secular country. In theory at last...

RB>> Not only in theory, at least up to now. That's the way Mustafa Kemal
RB>> (Atatuerk) wanted it, and the constitution is framed accordingly.

MV> In theory. Just as The Netherlands is secular in theory. But as long
MV> as church bells can legally keep me out of my sleep on Sunday Morning
MV> and the local brass band can not, secularism is theory.

What does that have to do with secularity? Secularity means that religion
doesn't stand above the law and may have no direct influence on politics.

That being said, I also live one house away from a church that rings it's bells
LOUDLY at every available excuse, and that meanwhile drives me up the wall. I
have daydreams about the church towars in Bavaria that collapsed because the
bells caused structural damage, and in my mind's eye see the tower on the
corner of my block collapsing amid clouds of dust - and me grinning from ear to
ear as it falls.

But the fact remains, the law permits that. Although I often wonder why there
is no mineret on the mosque here in Datteln, where the muezzin can use a
loudspeaker to call the faithful to prayer three times a day...

Cheers, Bob

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