Text 938, 209 rader
Skriven 2007-05-04 12:33:59 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
Kommentar till text 889 av LEE LOFASO (1:123/140)
Ärende: Shootings
=================
Hello LEE.
03 May 07 22:02, you wrote to me:
LL> Hello Jeff,
>>NK> And whatever anyone says here, I will never subscribe to banning
>>NK> guns period.
>>LL> Banning handguns would be appropriate.
>>RW> Banning handguns would not be appropriate and it probably never
>>RW> will come to be.
LL> [..]
>>LL> Then perhaps you would be able to explain why the murder rate in
>>LL> the USA is eight to ten times higher than in Japan.
JS>> There are several factors involved. Just a few of which are that
JS>> the US is made up of more nationalities than almost any other
JS>> country.
LL> The nationality of a people, and the number of nationalities within a
LL> country has nothing to do with it.
Considering the problem we (we=global we) have with getting people
of differant nationalities to care enough about each other to talk let
alone work together towards a common goal. It is not suprizing the effort
needed to get people of differant nationalities that live in the same
country to live peacefully together without killing each other off. It
is very much a factor as current global conditions show.
The Japanese are comprised of a single people that have a culture
that has developed over many centuries. Many centuries more than the
reletively new US.
JS>> The US has almost three times the population and is over 20 times
JS>> the size of Japan.
LL> Perhaps I should have mentioned the murder rate is per capita. IOW,
LL> per 100,000 people. And that makes your argument bogus.
Not bogus. Japan's leadership has on more than occasion stated that
they want Japan to be the safest country in the world. However, since the
late 1990s, the Japanese press and public have lost confidence in their
public safety and the effectiveness of the criminal justice system. Public
opinion surveys have shown that fear of crime among the Japanese has risen.
This rise in crime, which is reflected in a 44% increase in recorded crime
between 1995 and 2004, is generally associated in the Japanese press with
the economic slump during this period, and a subsequent collapse of
traditional community-based society.
JS>> Why are these factors you ask?
LL> They aren't.
JS>> Because if you stick 120 million Japanese people in an area that
JS>> small.
LL> The murder rate in Japan is 0.03 percent. The murder rate in the USA
LL> is 3.42 percent. Do the math. I'll give you a hint. The total
LL> number of murders in Japan since the end of WWII is 53 people. Well,
LL> 54 if you include the murder of a Japanese mayor last week.
JS>> They will either kill each other off or learn to live together.
LL> The Japanese have learned their lesson quite well. Americans still
LL> have much to learn,
This is true and when the US has been around as long as Japan. I would
hope that they have learn the necessary lessons also.
LL> as noted by an Australian newspaper which in
LL> regards to the massacre at VT, had as its headline -
LL> "America, the gun club"
Sorry, I don't have much faith in newspapers (US or foreign) and do
not depend on them to tell me what is happening or what I am supposed to
think.
JS>> Even so the Japanese crime rate has steadily increased up to 2005
JS>> before they saw a small drop in the crime rate.
LL> Pickpockets and murder are two very different kinds of crime.
JS>> While in the the US the statisics paint quite a differant picture
JS>> than the one that you are trying to suggest.
LL> If only America had 53 murders since the end of WWII...
Comparing Japanese and US murder rates is like trying to compare
apples and oranges and trying to argue the differance. The US has a higher
murder rate for very obvious reasons. Only a few of which I have pointed
out to you.
Do your own research and see why your comparison is pointless.
JS>> Nonfatal firearm crime rates have been declining since 1994, before
JS>> increasing in 2005.
LL> Nonfatal firearm crime is not murder.
LL> The 13 murders at Columbine High School was a firearm crime.
LL> The 32 murders at Virginia Tech was a firearm crime.
LL> How many more Columbines and Virgina Techs does it take to convince
LL> Americans to give up membership in their exclusive gun club?
JS>> After 1996, less than 10% of nonfatal violent crimes involved guns.
JS>> After 1993, the number of gun crimes reported to police declined
JS>> and then stabilized at levels not seen si 1988. Since the conceal
JS>> carry law was passed which allowed people to legally carry a
JS>> handgun in my state. The ability to carry a gun has not resulted in
JS>> even a noticable increase in gun related crime.
LL> Lets not forget mass murderer Timothy McVeigh, who chose to use a
LL> homemade bomb to blow up a federal building in Oklahoma City, leaving
LL> dozens of innocent men, women and children DEAD.
JS>> The facts Lee don't support what you would like people to believe.
JS>> I would suggest that you do a little research first.
LL> The facts speak for themselves, showing America as an armed camp with
LL> thousands of innocent people getting hurt and/or killed for no reason
LL> every year.
>>JS> If I were a dealer of illegal drugs how much do you think I would
>>JS> care about having an illegal gun? Making guns illegal to have
>>JS> would NOT make guns any harder to get if wanted. If anything it
>>JS> would only mean that there would be more illegal guns available to
>>JS> the bad guys.
>>LL> While it is true that most criminals shoot other criminals, it is
>>LL> also true that banning such weapons would also lower the number of
>>LL> criminals getting shot, for the simple reason that fewer criminals
>>LL> would have guns.
JS>> How so? If hanguns are banned. Then the criminals will have even
JS>> more guns to rob and kill with. I seriously doubt that they would
JS>> limit their killing to mainly just other criminals. Not when there
JS>> are alot easier and unarmed people out there. Hmm... should I use
JS>> my gun to rob that guy with a gun or that other guy without a gun.
JS>> Pretty much a no brainer for th criminal I would think. But as I
JS>> stated above people being able to carry guns has not been the
JS>> source of more crime and killing.
LL> Golly gee. Handguns are banned in Japan. And there are very few
LL> cases of murder as a result. Handguns are banned in the UK. And
LL> there are very few cases of murder as a result. Handguns are banned
LL> in virtually every civilized country in the world. And there are very
LL> few cases of murder as a result. Why is it then that the murder rate
LL> in America is so high in comparison with the rest of the civilized
LL> world? Could the reason be that handguns are so easily accessible
LL> here, for virtually anyone who wants one to get one? Or is it that
LL> America simply has not yet joined the civilized world?
>>LL> Even the yakuza in Japan learned that basic lesson.
>>LL> Although admittedly drug dealers rarely if ever off themselves.
>>LL> Except suicide by cop. They kinda like that.
>>LL> By banning handguns, there would also be fewer cases of suicide by
>>LL> cop. IOW, criminals without handguns are not likely to challenge
>>LL> cops to shoot them, being that cops are not likely to shoot an
>>LL> unarmed criminal.
JS>> Then ya better not piss off the cops around here. <g>
LL> That would be a problem in Stalinist Russia.
LL> That would be a problem in Maoist China.
LL> That would be a problem in Hussein's Iraq.
LL> That would be a problem in any anti-democratic country.
LL> But this is America, home of the gun club.
LL> Where law-abiding citizens do not need cops to shoot them,
LL> being that law-abiding citizens do it themselves.
Seeing that you have a predisposition to think that the US is
bad. I will not waste my time trying to reason with you. I have
explaned my points and provided reasons for those points. But instead
of listening you can only respond with what you have already decided
is right. And we haven't even touched on your view of guns and who
should or shouldn't have them.
In closing, let me say that Japan has worked out gun ownership and
possesion laws that work for them. Laws that work for a number of
reasons. Those same laws would not work in the US. Again there are a number
of reasons why. Culture, population, age, and size are only a few of the
reasons. But seeing that you are only able to see things in only a
particular slant. It is ineffectual to point out things that you are
unable or unwilling to see.
LL> --Lee
LL> * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
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LL> * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com
LL> (1:123/140)
Jeff
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