Text 14263, 78 rader
Skriven 2011-02-20 16:25:10 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 14248 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war
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Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Sunday February 20 2011 at
11:37:

RB>> That was also the case in France in 1798, and what happened? The
RB>> Reign of Terror and Napoleon.

MV> That was over 200 years ago. The world is a different place now.

And humans different people? I doubt it.

MV>>> It /may/ work. It has worked in Indonesia...

RB>> Better take a look at the news from Indonesia before you start
RB>> calling _that_ a "democracy". Doesn't look very democratic to me.

MV> That is probably because you are too much focussed on the western
MV> style democracy.

That's why it's called "democracy" and not "dictatorship"

MV> Indonesia may not have the type of democracy that you would like to
MV> have for yourself. To me it looks that it is what THEY want.

You can naturally say the same about _any_ country, including places like
Zimbabwe.

MV> Mind you , if the people of a country decide that they want to be
MV> ruled by an absolute monarch, than that too is democratic decision.

Is it? And who decides, if there are no free elections and no literate and
informed electorate?

MV> A revolution without a leader is doomed to fail.

Not necessarily. You glossed over the French Revolution above, and forgot
Napoleon. He came later.

RB>> And of course, there was the added help from the Americans, who
RB>> dropped the Shah like a hot potato to let "the people" have their
RB>> will.

MV> Here I totally disagree. The Sjah was a brutal dictator...

In _complete_ contrast to Koumehni, a gentle, kind old man...

MV> ...that should never have had the US support in the first place.

Why not, as long as "the people" (who cares how repressed) accepted that?
According to you, that was "democracy".

MV> This policy is a selfish policy of cowards.

No, just realism. The same kind of realism that governs most of the world
today. Take a look at the Pax Romana, introduced by Octavian, a bloody dictator
if there ever was one. But he kept the Roman Empire stable for many decades and
gave it a time of peace and prosperity. Take your choice: "democracy" and chaos
(at least in countries not able to understand the concept), or rigid
dictatorship, peace and prosperity. I know that's not politically correct
nowadays, but "them's the facts".

MV> Had we not supported thoe dictators, those countries may indeed be
MV> taken over by Islamic fundamentalists. But it would not have been
MV> Islamic fundamentalists that TURN AGAINST US.

;-) Of course not... they would merely have behaved as the muslims did in 1300
and 1400, attempting with all military power to "convert" the rest of the world
or eliminate all "infidels". You assumt too much peacefulness in the muslim
world.

MV> The Americans have never stopped making the mistake of supporting
MV> dictators.

The question remains as to whether that was really a mistake.

Cheers, Bob

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