Text 20340, 76 rader
Skriven 2011-07-01 22:06:10 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Foreign misconceptions of the USA
=========================================
Hello Robert,

On Wednesday June 29 2011 08:31, you wrote to me:

 MV>> The o diereis, the o unlaut and the dotted o as in Björn all use
 MV>> the same code position: Unicode 00D6 (upper case) and 00F6 (lower
 MV>> case).

 RB> That's the computer, not the language.

Since over 99.9% of all text that is written, is produced using a computer that
*has become* the language. Language is defined by it use, not by the
historians.

 RB> Why use two characters when everything looks similar

Indeed why? So that is what happened not with te inroduction of the computer,
but with the introduction of the typewriter.

 RB>  - incidentally, this is also Bjorn's problem.

To me it looks like it is *your* problem.

 RB> If umlauts and the character in his name were different, there would
 RB> be no question of transliteration as in German.

So the problem is not that the character is Björn's name is typographically the
same as the German o with umlaut, the problen is that the german's have adopted
the kludge of transliterating umlauted characters withouit consideration for
the effects on others.

It is the transliteration that is the kludge that causes the problem.

 RB> Anyway, no German writes two dots over his umlauts, they are always
 RB> two short strokes. Look at any handwriting you care to. Look at any
 RB> printed _book_ in German. Two strokes, not two dots.

Who uses handwriting these days other than for shopping lists? Anyway, I have
about two dozen books in German here. The ALL use two dots as umlauts. Same in
the two German dictionaries I have here, The books and the dictonairies range
forn 1950 till 1995. So this isn'a fairly recent thing.

Face reality Bob: In the 21st century umlauts are represented by two dots.

 MV>> From a typographic POV, there is no longer a difference.

 RB> You don't know what you're talking about.

I read German literature, I DO know what I am talking about.

And BTW, no transliteration in those books either. It is umlauts and Esszets.

 RB>>> What really gets an English speaker, however, is the
 RB>>> pronunciation of German names with transliterations.

 MV>> A good reason to avoid them would you not say?

 RB> No, since the alternative would be to use special characters, which
 RB> _definitely_ would not be pronounced correctly.

Then at least the reader knows that he has no way of knowing how it is
pronounced.

 RB> In languages without them, umlauts are pronounced the same as the
 RB> letter without the umlaut,

Says who?

 RB> since people don't know what the umlaut strokes mean.

How do you know that?

Cheers, Michiel

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