Text 20638, 87 rader
Skriven 2011-07-12 00:30:38 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Confusion (was: The...)
===============================
Hello Robert,

On Sunday July 10 2011 08:26, you wrote to me:

 MV>> What strikes me is that he insists that immigrants should adapt to
 MV>> the ways of the country they settle in. He has been living in
 MV>> Germany for forty years now. Gemany is full of umlauts and some
 MV>> other "funny" characters.

 RB> ONE character, the esszet.

I suppose that depands on the definition of "funny". Other than the 'á', I see
a 'æ', a 'õ' and a 'ø'. Characters that are not present on a  US keybaord.
Never mind.

 RB>  Which, I might add, is being phased out.

Is it? Pity , I liked than one. Still, eben it is banned from tomorrow, it has
been in use until now.

 MV>> But he refuses to use them.

 RB> As do most Germans writing in fido, who are aware that their umlauts
 RB> and esszets may be seen as unintelligible graphics by others.

That is not what I observe. You forget that I read German echos. What I see is
that many use the transliteration, but more do not. A rough estimate is 60/40
in favour of the umlauts and esszets.

 MV>> He claims there is a widely accepted transliteration scheme, but I
 MV>> ONLY see that in Fidonet and then only used by some.

 RB> I don't "claim" that, it IS so.

So you claim...

But you have been wrong on this before. Not so long ago you assumed - and
claimed - that the transliteration was also used outside Germany. You critisied
Björn for not using the transliteration. So when you were worng once, why
should we take your word for it now?

 RB> And if you haven't seen it except in fido, you haven't been looking
 RB> very hard.

I read German books, I watch German television. We have many products in the
supermarket with multilangual product information. Today I was in the local
public library and I randomly took about half a dozen german books from the
shelve. Umlauts and esszets everywhere. Not one of them used the
transliteration. I stand by my observation: it is ONLY in FidoNet that I see
people use the transliteration.

 RB> Ever heard of a company called Hoechst? It's spelled that way, too,
 RB> and not Höchst

A few messages ago, you told me that the transliteration does not apply to
proper names. You mentoned "Goebbels" as an example. "Schrödinger" and
"Schroedinger" are not two representations of the same name, they are different
names. You contradict yourself.

 RB> (the umlaut copied from WinWord by cut and paste). Plenty of other
 RB> examples around.

I am sure, you can find plenty of names with an 'oe' instead of an 'ö'. But
they only prove that some names are spelled with 'oe' and some are spelled with
'ö'.

 MV>> So how is that for adapting?

 RB> A good deal better than you and Bjorn do in an English-language echo,
 RB> but don't worry, _I_ don't hold grudges for something as minor as
 RB> that.

Apples and fish. This is not a country and I did not come here as an immigrant.
Also you do not hold a preferred position over me. I am just as much a "local"
here as you are. I have no obligation whatsoever to adapt to your ways of doing
things here.

And although English may be the going language here, the rules do not say
"English only" and the rules explicitly allow characters other than US ASCII.

So who should adapt?


Cheers, Michiel

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