Text 27665, 104 rader
Skriven 2012-04-05 09:02:12 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 27620 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Soldiers going home ... copied from a Facebook post ...
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Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday April 04 2012 at
16:42:

RB>>>> Unfortunately, Israel has good reason to feel threatened - having
RB>>>> been militarily attacked multiple times since 1947 - and thus has
RB>>>> more justification for masive defence

MV> Since when are nucelar weapons /defensive/ weapons?

They scare off people who would like to do something horrible to you but don't
dare because they might get it back, with interest.

MV>>> With the result that in turn they threaten others. Such as Iran that
MV>>> is now surrounded by nuclear powers.

RB>> It is?.

MV> Let's say that I can see why they perceive it that way.

If you count the whole world. Naturally they could stop any perceived threat
tomorrow, just by acting like sane persons. But they're orientals and don't
think the way we do.

MV> Iraq and Afghanistan are occupied by NATO powers. NATO is a nuclear
MV> power. Turkey is a NATO member, NATO is a nuclear power and has bases
MV> in Turke. so Iran would consider Turkey a nuclear power.

That's taking assumptions just a bit far.

RB>> Otherwise the only (putative) nuclear power is Israel,

MV> You can leave out the "putative". Even if they do not actually have
MV> nuclear weapons, the idee that they may have them is enough to fear.

Depends on whether you give them a reason to use them or not.

MV> Exactly! Israel has attacked Iran several times.

When, to be precise...? Seems to me you may be thinking of Iraq, and that was
one time, to eliminate the nuclear capacity they were building up.

MV> And for what reason? When was the last time Iran attacked Israel?

Since Hamas is nothing but a surrogate for Iran (and Syria, which has it's own
problems at the moment) in the middle east, I would guess sometime in the last
couple of weeks.

RB>> However, if the state of Israel were in true danger of being
RB>> eliminated - as Ahmadinejad keeps demanding,

MV> So you say. But look a bit closer. What he said was that the present
MV> government of Israel has to go. He never said Israel has to be
MV> annihilated. That is an error of translation.

I didn't know you speak Farsi.

RB>> up to now without the wherewithal to back up the rhetoric

MV> So we agree that it is just rhetoric.

Unfortunately, no. Maybe it's escaped you, but islamic people in that part of
the world tend to become _very_ violent - and I mean they kill people - while
they're screaming. If I had to live next to a country like that, I'd want to be
armed to the teeth, too.

RB>> - I could imagine Israel resorting to extreme measures to defend its
RB>> existence.

MV> And Iran is denied that right, despite the threats and sabre rattling
MV> of Netanyahu?

When did Israel - any government - demand that Iran be annihilated? As for the
threats and sabre rattling, they apply to the drive in Iran to acquire nuclear
capacity. And before you deny that, just read the reports on the degree of
enrichment they're aiming at and compare that with what you need to run a
peaceful nuclear reactor. You don't need "highly enriched" uranium for a
nuclear reactor.

Anyway, I think they're crazy to begin with. Not only do they have plenty of
oil - and if they wanted to improve their refining capacity would have no
problems getting fuel - but they're also sitting on some of the nicest
earthquake faults to be seen in the world. Now just imagine what would happen
if a nice earthquake hits a nuclear reactor, which in their region is not a
possibility, but a probability given enough time. That's why I think they're
crazy even when you only consider their own interests.

RB>> Presumably any country threatened in its existence by a virulently
RB>> unfriendly neighbor would think and act similarly.

MV> Which is exactly why I can understand why Iran may want the bomb.

To forward to Tel-Aviv. Sure.

MV> And it is not just Israel that is a threat. There is also the USAian
MV> omnipresence in the region.

I _knew_ that had to come.

Sorry, Michiel, here's where I get off.

Cheers, Bob

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