Text 28559, 158 rader
Skriven 2012-05-11 17:26:37 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
  Kommentar till text 28532 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Holy Rules
==================
Hello Michiel,

 MV>> Ah yes, those holy rules....

 MV>> The holy rules written by Americans for Americans.

 RB>> May I remind you that fido was a development of an RB>American named Tom
 MvdV> Jennings?

MVDV>
 MvdV> May I remind you that:

 MvdV> 1) It was well over 25 years ago that TJ started Fidonet.

He had help.  :)

 MvdV> 2) That TJ has left Fidonet ages ago.

His baby remains, albeit in a much different form.

 MvdV> 3) That the software and the protocol (FTS-1) are only used by a
 MvdV>     very tiny majority these days. It is mostly Binkp these days.

Changes in technology have affected FidoNet, but even the original
software/protocol can still be used.

 MvdV> 4) That TJ had no part in those holy rules. On the contrary, he
 MvdV>     despised them. "P4 is a crock of smelly shit." Those were
 MvdV>     his words.

Perhaps.  But even more revealing is this document that I found,
a few excerpts noted below -

"...local nets are totally standalone; that is what they are for!"
- Tom Jennings

"...If there is a `FidoNet policy', this is it."
- Tom Jennings

http://www.nsrc.org/lowcost_tools/fidonet/papers/fidohist

Fidonet History and Operation, 8 Feb 85 (but could be 20 Aug 85)

"Neither I nor Ken Kaplan nor Ben Baker `run' FidoNet; local networks
.... are entirely the responsibility of the sysops in the area."
- Tom Jennings

"As a matter of fact, you are encouraged to form local networks,
or join one that exists locally."
- Tom Jennings

The date of the document is confusing, as two different dates are
noted (Feb 8, 1985 and August 20, 1985).  However, it is one paper,
not a collection of papers.

I could find no evidence noting Tom Jennings ever supported P4.
The above document reveals his core philosophy pertaining to FidoNet,
which is a very DECENTRALIZED structure.  No zones or geopolitical
structure at all.  A minimalist approach, allowing individual sysops
to decide how to run their boards.

 RB>> And that in the early days, Z1 was by far the largest zone?

MVDV>
 MvdV> You got the tense right. "was", past tense. Those days are over and have
 MvdV> been over for well over a decade. If Z1 ever had a mandate to control
all
 MvdV> of fidodent by the power of numbers. They have lost it 15 years ago.

Back to the Future (a return to what Tom Jenning's had in mind)
would be a step forward for FidoNet.  :)

 RB>> And the fact that rules are there to regulate matters, and may be
 RB>> changed by consensus, but not _retroactively_ by fiat?

MVDV>>Who said anything about /retroactively/ changing the rules?
MVDV>Certainly not me!

The original rules, as set forth by Tom Jennings?  You'd love it!  :)

 RB>> That, and nothing else, was the bone of contentention between Ward and
 RB>> the other ZCs.

MVDV>Actually the contention was just between Ward en Janis. The other
MVDV>ZCs just played a minor role as voting fodder for janis.

That may be.  But do you honestly believe the Ice Queen will admit
to that?

 RB>> But as I've written elsewhere, I personally think it's a waste of good
 RB>> time to argue about history, as if it could still be changed.

MVDV>
 MvdV> If it were just history, it would be history. But it isn't. Z1 is STILL
 MvdV> trying to impose their will on th rest of Fidonet, despite the fact that
 MvdV> they are now just a minority.

Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it.  Somebody else said
that long before I did...

MVDV>The actions of the Troika last year are not history. It is an
MVDV>ongoing matter.  We still have a schism....

There is only a schism for those who believe there is a schism.
For example, P4 remains important only if sysops continue to believe
in P4.  Once the realization is made that P4 is irrelevant, sysops
then pay no mind to whatever the Ice Queen and her cohorts say or do.

Another example.  A few years ago, a US President called the
US Constitution "just a goddamn piece of paper".  If the President
would have been well-loved by the people, he could have made himself
to be a dictator (just like Adolf Hitler).  However, the President
was not as well-loved as he thought he was...

The point is, as long as sysops continue to believe in P4 the
present structure of FidoNet will remain.  But once the curtain
has been removed, and sysops no longer believe in P4, the present
structure of FidoNet will collapse, returning to what it was
originally intended by be as envisioned by Tom Jennings.

 MV>> The holy rules that Americans rammed down our throats and the holy
 MV>> rules they themselves bend, twist, re‹nterpret or simply ignore
 MV>> when it suits them, but that they insist others follow to the
 MV>> letter when that is what suits the Americans. No matter how
 MV>> ridiculous the result is under circumstances twenty three years
 MV>> later.

 MV>> Ah, yes, /those/ holy rules....

 RB>> Please, Michel, you're making yourself ridiculous with such wild
 RB>> comments. You can be anti-American without trying to ram it down

MVDV>
 MvdV> I am simply stating the known facts. P4 WAS written by Americans. And it
is
 MvdV> painfully obvious that is was written for the American situation. Have
you
 MvdV> forgotten about th German "Classic Fidonet"?

P4 is ignored by the Ice Queen and her cohorts.
Yet the Ice Queen insists on using P4 as a weapon
to get other sysops to do her bidding.  The only
solution to that problem is to rid FidoNet of the
Ice Queen and her cohorts.  Along with junking P4.

 RB>> Can't we some day, somehow, get back to that? To hell with the past!

MVDV>Tell that to your US friend who keep reminding us af a period in
MVDV>history 70 years ago, that triggers Godwin's law all the time...

The Andrews Sisters.
What lovely gals.
The Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy loved them all.  :)

--Lee

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