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Text 3202, 81 rader
Skriven 2010-01-16 11:28:52 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Travel in Europe
========================
Hello Robert,

On Friday January 15 2010 13:54, you wrote to me:

 MV>>>> crossing the border was a sign. We actually walked across and
 MV>>>> marked our presence in the snow. ;-)

 RB>>> You're lucky you didn't get shot.

 MV>> Shot by whom? There was no one in sight. We were in the middle of
 MV>> a forest. That border was not guarded.

 RB> ...that you know about. You certainly do like to assume a lot.

Oh c'mon. This was 1968. There were no stealth planes, no little robot
aircraft, no radar that could see through clothes. We were in the middle of
nowhere. It was overcast, there was no one in sight or in earshot. We had not
seen another car in half an hour. There were no watch towers, no trenches, no
mines. Not even a fence. No nothing. Only the sign. That border was not
guarded. Period.

 MV>> The border between East Germany and Poland was not the same as the
 MV>> border between East and West Germany. Do not measures everything
 MV>> with the yard stick of the Berlin wall.

 RB> Michiel, _you_ may never have seen the border between east and west
 RB> Germany,

I have seen it. I crossed it at Checkpoint Charlie. I stood where Kennedy stood
when he declared himself a saucage.

 RB> but I most definitely have - not only in Berlin - and I say right here
 RB> and now that you have no idea whatever about it.

Bob, I have seen it. And indeed not only in Berlin. I saw the muliple fences,
the watch towers, the 100 meter wide strip devoid of trees and bushes.

On the same train trip to Poland, I crossed the East-German/West-German border
at Frankfurt am Oder. I saw the train being searched from top to bottom. Dogs,
guards with mirrors, guards with machine guns at the four corners of the train
when it slowly crossed the buffer strip. I saw the lot.

 RB> You generalize and try to play everything down, whereas others have
 RB> seen the reality with their own eyes.

I am not generalising or playing down anything. I am just telling what I saw.
And I saw it both. I saw the Iron Curtian and I saw the Czech/Polish border. I
was there, I crossed the latter with my own feet. Ans I am telling you, that at
that point that border was not guarded. It was no different from the border
between Belgium and The Netherlands at most places.

 MV>> Not my experience. Maybe you crossed at a time when there had been
 MV>> an incident and security was temporarely raised.

 RB> No. The summer of 1966 was no different from any other time. If you
 RB> experienced anything else, I can only assume you may have done that at
 RB> a much earlier time, when the east-west differences and animosities
 RB> were not yet as great as later.

It was 1968.

 MV>> We took a trip to Poland by train. Crossing the Iron curtain was
 MV>> hairy. Crossing from East Germany into Poland was not much
 MV>> different from crossing from the Netherlands into West Germany.

Second half of the sixties.

 RB> East Germans going to Poland would have no chance to escape to the
 RB> west, whereas those going to Hungaria or Czachoslovakia would have -
 RB> that would have explained the differences I saw, and possibly the lax
 RB> border controls you experienced.

I do not know about Hungary, but the border between West Germany and
Czechoslovakia was heavily guarded. Not much chance of xing that unobserved. it
does not explain the difference.


Cheers, Michiel

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