Text 3422, 118 rader
Skriven 2010-01-20 17:44:06 av Lee Lofaso (3:800/432.0)
   Kommentar till text 3305 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: "Flying is the safest wa
================================
Hello Bob,

>LL>There is nothing in the US Constitution forbidding dual citizenship.
>LL>Therefore it is legal.

>RB>Only because there is now a ruling by the Supreme Court. The
>RB>Constitution doesn't detail the laws, that's for the courts to do.

>LL>The US Supreme Court is a court of writ...

RB>OK, then I'll put it this way: the court decided that any attempt
RB>to stip a US citizen of his citizenship against his will is - except
RB>in extraordinary cases - unconstitutional. Satisfied?

In general, that would be true.  But it is a very murky area of law.

>LL>From a US viewpoint what Germany recognizes and does not recognize
>LL>is irrelevant.

>RB>As is the Germen viewpoint, only in reverse.

>LL>Of course.  After all, German laws are for Germans.

RB>And for anyone living or present in Germany. Come over here
RB>and try breaking a German law if you don't believe it.

Only if I had a diplomatic passport.  ;)

>LL>An individual could claim that he/she was forced to renounce his/her
>LL>US citizenship in order to become a German citizen, in which case it
>LL>would be unconstitutional from an American perspective. Meaning the
>LL>individual would still be a US citizen.

>RB>Total illusion. I've gone through the procedure and know the details.
>RB>Anyone who tried to make such a claim would be laughed out of court
>RB>in the States.

>LL>The acquisition of nationality does not necessarily mean one loses the
>LL>citizenship of one's birth...

RB>Lee, _you_ may not be informed on this, and need to hold a
RB>long discourse on it to sharpen your own intellect, but you
RB>don't have to preach to me what I already know.

The point is, there are many paths to obtaining citizenship/nationality
of other countries.

>RB>If you want to read the details, try:

>RB>http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

>LL>It is very clear the United States does not like its citizens to live
>LL>abroad. But that does not mean those Americans who choose to live
>LL>abroad lose their US citizenship, or are forced to lose their US
>LL>citizenship. That is a misconception.

RB>By you. The question of living abroad was never touched upon until you
RB>mentioned it just above.

Not many US citizens manage to lose their US citizenship while in
the US.  But some have.  One idiot in particular managed to do so by
standing on the steps of the United Nations and publicly renounced his
US citizenship while proclaiming himself to be a citizen of the world.
The state department granted him his wish, which made him a stateless
person.

>LL>THE ONLY DEFINITIVE RULING ON LOSS OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP IS MADE BY THE
>LL>STATE DEPARTMENT ISSUING A CERTIFICATE OF LOSS OF U.S. NATIONALITY.

RB>So what else is new?

What is nationality?  What is citizenship?  It used to be that folks
could travel freely between countries, even without a passport.  One
could emigrate from one place to another, begin a new life, and move
on.  But things have become much more complicated today.  Instead of
looking backward, we should be looking forward, to the future.  To
do that, we should do away with the need for passports.  We should
all become citizens of the world, having no country claiming us as
its own.

>LL>Do you have in your possession such a certificate?

RB>No, I gave it to the Germans as proof of the fact that I
RB>had no other nationality.

Er, Bob?  That would have made you a stateless person.  Meaning
you would have been a refugee.  Not sure what kind of refugee.
But you would have been a refugee.

>LL>If not, then you are in fact still a U.S. citizen.

RB>I think both the Germans and the State Department would disagree with that.

Probably would.  But that's their problem.

>LL>In which case you get the last laugh. Don't you love it?

RB>Why would I? Do I have any advantage from being a dual national?

Yes.  But that is another topic.

RB>But the question simply doesn't arise, regardless
RB>of how much you write about things you apparently don't
RB>know, but I do through personal experience.

Oh, but my cousin had much personal experience, as he did much
the same thing as you.  Except in Belgium and South Africa, rather
than Germany.  The difference is, he returned to the US, after
several decades living abroad, still a US citizen.  Yes, the
state department had a hissy.  But he got his way.

--Lee


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