Text 5019, 110 rader
Skriven 2010-02-18 08:07:06 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
     Kommentar till en text av Bob Seaborn (1:140/12)
Ärende: Banking
===============
Bob Seaborn wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday February 17 2010 at 08:37:

RB>> "email transfer"? Meaning specifically?
BS>  As I suggested to Ward, I refer you to this site:
BS>  "http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/ebanking/email_transfer.jsp"

Oh, brother... "easy, fast and secure"? I'd call it "complicated and
expensive". Better than nothing, but still much more complicated than a direct
account transfer - why should the recipient have to do _anything_ to receive
the money? - and much more expensive than one here in the EU (I pay nothing for
a direct account transfer, which I order using a banking program on the
Internet).

Uh-oh... I think I can answer my own question above: see my message to Freejack
with my comments on how people in the States regard their bank account numbers
as a "top secret"... if this also applies in Canada, and I presume it does
because of the similarity of the banking systems, this complicated method of
notification is probably the only way you have to access someone else's account
even to pay into it.

BS>>> ... as well as direct deposit to my account(s) from any other of the
BS>>> TD in Canada...

RB>> _TO_ your account. And limited to the same bank. This also applies in
RB>> the States, but not limited to the same bank. In the States, the
RB>> direct depositor generally requires you to sign some kind of
RB>> agreement for this.

BS> The first bit is true, the second (about signing an agreement) isn't,
BS> at least when I've used the system, all I recall doing is handing the
BS> teller the $$, giving her the destination info, and getting a receipt.

I was referring to a direct account transfer, not to this "Interac Email Money
Transfer" you meant. At least in the States, anyone (mainly the government and
large companies) who pays money directly into your account requires an
agreement signed not only by you, but also by your bank confirming your
account. The procedure is quite complex and time consuming, and is not
something you'd do for a one-time transfer.

RB>> In Europe, you can directly deposit funds from your account to
RB>> another (the "payee"), even in another country. And of course, the
RB>> reverse is also true: you can ask someone, even in another (EU)
RB>> country, to deposit funds in your account. No "agreement" is
RB>> necessary, you just do it. All you need is the IBAN (international
RB>> banking account) and BIC (bank identifier code) numbers.

BS> I believe it can be don here also, but isn't all that common as banks
BS> are highly competitive.

Unless Canada is completely different from the USA in this respect, I sincerely
doubt that. I doubt that you as a private person can directly transfer money to
another person's account and I also doubt that the banks are as competitive as
you think, as bank fees in the States and presumably also in Canada are sky
high in comparison to those in Europe. I might mention that things like
"inactivity fees", common in the States, are unknown in Europe.

RB>> In the States, many (most?) businesses require that you agree to
RB>> allow them to retrieve funds transferred to your account by mistake.
RB>> That's part of the above-mentioned "agreement".

BS> Here, once the process is finished, there's no way to reverse the
BS> process other than the recipient willingly transferring the $$ back.

As mentioned above, we're talking about different things. I was again referring
to direct account transfers.

RB>> "Electronically" doesn't mean the same thing in the USA and Canada as
RB>> in Europe. This confused me at first too, when I had to provide a
RB>> name and address for the payee, and was not asked for the bank or
RB>> account number. What they really mean is that the bank issues and
RB>> sends a check (through the mail) to the payee.

BS> When I set up my web-banking here to pay bills, I had to supply the
BS> payee info. For example, 'city of Saskatoon utilities" and the account
BS> number. That's it.  Ditto for my cellphone account and cable tv, for
BS> example. There is NO physical paper cheque generated, everything is
BS> done electronically.

Account number = _bank_ account number of the payee _or_ your business acount
number with the business in question? Only the former would allow for a true
"electronic" transfer, and even then you'd need to include an IBAN and BIC
number (SWIFT) to be sure. With certain exceptions, where a bank already has a
direct deposit agreement with a payee (for example a utility company) and may
of it's own accord use direct acount transfers, such "electronic" bill paying
is, as I mentioned, done by check sent through the mail. I'm not assuming this,
as I've paid bills often enough by this means.

Incidentally, I also looked at the "Interac Online" part of the same website
you cited, as that claims to be a kind of direct account transfer for Internet
payments. But it is limited to a very few dealers and you have to register for
the service - this would be something similar to the exception I mentioned
above, where the bank already has a direct deposit agreement with the payee. It
is not comparable to the direct deposit system we have here in Europe.

BS> When my son arranged banking for his business, he included auto
BS> payments from his bank. He receives an authorization from his
BS> customer, one sample blank cheque marked VOID, then submits that to
BS> the bank.

That _is_ a direct account transfer, as the purpose of the check is to provide
the account details for a direct transfer. And the authorization you speak of
is precisely what I mentioned above, except that I called it an "agreement".

However, this is not what happens when you pay bills "electronically" online
from your own bank account.

Cheers, Bob

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