Text 7287, 77 rader
Skriven 2010-04-26 09:18:57 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Question about democracy
================================
Hello Robert,

On Friday April 16 2010 13:16, you wrote to me:

 MV>> As I explained, the system here is different. We do not have a
 MV>> court with that authority. The people's elected representatives
 MV>> are the highest authority regarding the validity of laws.

 RB> Dangerous in my opinion, but if you're satisfied, it's your country.

You do not seem to have much faith in elected representatives.

 MV>> We will see. The dust has not settled yet, but as i see it, in the
 MV>> end we will have a system where the EU has the authority to
 MV>> override national law...

 RB> Under present circumstances, I can't imagine that. All EU member
 RB> countries have a constitution,

No, not all of them.

 RB> and for the EU to override national law, all those constitutions would
 RB> have to be invalidated and replaced by an EU Constitution.

Not necesarily. But indeed some or perhapes even most of those constitutions
wioll have to be amended. So what? Our constitution is uodated all te time. It
is no big deal.

 RB> What _that_ means was shown by Valery Giscard d'Estang: thousands of
 RB> pages of detailed crap that nobody reads and nobody follows (and
 RB> nobody agrees with).

That one failed because of clumsy presentation.

The next one was adopted. Fact its we already have a European constitution. It
is called the Lisboa Treaty. You said it yourself: what's in a name?.

 MV>> Then again the Lisboa treaty gives member states the possibility
 MV>> to opt out of the EU...

 RB> Which may actually become an option if the EU ever tries to override
 RB> national constitutions.

We already HAVE the situation that the EU overrules national law. Think about
the EU court.

 RB> I know a lot of people, including me, who would shake off their
 RB> lethargy and go onto the streets to protest against such a thing.

Then you are 30 years late.

 MV>> I expect - as European integration proceeds - that the Dutch
 MV>> system will have to go. Too much out of line with the rest. I
 MV>> expect that at some point in the future Dutch laws can be thrown
 MV>> out by some European constitutional court.

 RB> I don't think that will happen, not even after we are dead.

We may not live to se it, but I think it will happen. It is the natural next
step. Where provincial law overides city law and national law overrides
provincial law.

 RB> Such integration was hard enough in the States - and even now is
 RB> incomplete - even with identical mentalities and the same language.
 RB> Think of how difficult it would be in Europe, with totally different
 RB> histories, mentalities and languages.

I think it will be EASIER in Europe than in the US. We do not have that almost
pathological aversion against government. We accept that government and the
things that come wit it - for example taxes - are a necessary evil. Plus that
we have a long history of living with compromise.


Cheers, Michiel

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