Text 9888, 315 rader
Skriven 2010-08-09 16:27:48 av Roy Witt (1:387/22)
   Kommentar till text 9826 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Extortion?
==================
04 Aug 10 15:42, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Roy Witt:

 RW>>>> Speculation and discussion keeps it alive with the public and
 RW>>>> certain police agenies.

 MvdV>>> Only until the next major airlines crash, flood, mining
 MvdV>>> accident or political scandal. It is history already.

 RW>> I'm aprised of the situation on a daily basis from such places as
 RW>> Aruba and now Peru.

 MvdV> LOL! Yiu must get e lot of NMHT reprts. (Not Much Happening Today)
 MvdV> Natalee Holloway has not been mentined in the news here for at
 MvdV> least two month.

That's what happens when you live in a, you know.

 MvdV> Last time was a short item to the effect that the Aruban police was
 MvdV> interested that ellegedly the subject og the fight between JvdS and
 MvdV> Flores. The laptop that alledgly contained articles about Holloway.
 MvdV> After that... nothing.

Too bad. Up until a few days ago there was news out of Peru and Aruba.

 RW>>>> I suppose the words 'arrested and detained' are semantic, as one
 RW>>>> can be held here for 72 hours without being charged.

 MvdV>>> You once again make the error of assuming everything in the
 MvdV>>> world works the same as in the US...

 MvdV> Where you are wrong is the 72 hours. That is not how it works under
 MvdV> Dutch law. Suspects can be held longer than that, without formally
 MvdV> being charged,

So much for actual freedom and civil rights in Holland. Constitutionally
in the US, everyone, domestic or foreign who is detained, has the right to
council and either being charged or freed after 72 hours.

 MvdV> but the "onderzoeksrechter", a judge must give his fiat. He will
 MvdV> ask for the evidnce so far. For each prolongation the demand for
 MvdV> evidence will be more stringent.

Evidence sometimes takes a while, perhaps longer than 72 hours, so a
suspect will be released if not charged, but told to remain within the
jurisdiction of the court. If it's a felony crime they're accused of, they
may post bail to assure their appearance to the court, murder of course is
a no-bail crime.

 RW>> Then they WERE arrested in Aruba...at least that's what the Aruban
 RW>> media has stated, over and over again.

 MvdV> All in all JvdS was detained for 90 days and then the judge ruled,
 MvdV> that since no further evidence was emerging, enough was enough and
 MvdV> he was released.

That's quite a bit longer than 72 hours... :o)

 MvdV> Later, the DA tried to have detained once more, claiming that new
 MvdV> avidence had emerged, but the jude ruled that it was basically the
 MvdV> smae old evidence presented in a diferent way and denied the
 MvdV> request for another detainment.

Somewhere in there the de Vries report came out and the court gave some
thought to arresting vds again.

 RW>>>> After one is released doesn't make them any less suspicious
 RW>>>> characters in the case by any means.

 MvdV>>> In most parts of the world it does.

 RW>> Most parts of the world don't think like a stubborn Dutchman.

 MvdV> In most parts of the world people are considered innocent until
 MvdV> convicted in a court of law.

If that were so, one wouldn't be detained for 90 days in those so-called
countries who say one thing, but do just the opposite.

 MvdV> Also do not forget that civilised countries havethe separation of
 MvdV> powers. A policeman or the DA may say that JvdS is still a suspect,
 MvdV> but when a judge has ruled that he can not be detained again, it is
 MvdV> rather meaningless.

So, the judge was corrupt and being paid under the table by the father.

 MvdV> You see here we do not only grant a suspect a fair trial, we also
 MvdV> require that the process be completed in a fair time frame.

Sure...90 days afterwards they may or may not be charged.

 MvdV> It can not last forever. At some point the subject must either be
 MvdV> tried in court or he must not be botheed again. Anything else would
 MvdV> be a violation of the principle of "completed in a fair time frame"

It says in our Constitution that everyone has the right to a speedy trial.

 MvdV> And since the court has rules that he can not be detained again on
 MvdV> the evidence as present, the pratcical consequence is that
 MvdV> presently he is not a supect. No matter what others asy.

Fortunately, the court doesn't always have its way.

 MvdV>>> a situation that is unlikely to change as five years have passed.

 RW>> Accept that the latest development has brought it back into the
 RW>> limelight, even in Aruba.

 MvdV> For 15 milliseconds

Daily basis. If it only takes you that long to read an article on it,
congratulations, you've learned to speed-read.

 MvdV>>> As I wrote before, it is very unlikely the body will turn up.
 MvdV>>> If it is anywhere on the island, it would have been found by
 MvdV>>> now. If it is in the sea... forget it.

 RW>> A guy named Peterson in California placed his murdered pregnant wife
 RW>> in the sea. She and the fetus seperately but eventually, washed up
 RW>> on shore.

 RW>> But, after 5 years with nothing like that, I assume that the
 RW>> murderer or his helper(s) did a good job of anchoring her to the
 RW>> bottom.

 MvdV> Ever heard of fish and what they eat?

They don't eat bones. Is that what you're getting at?

 MvdV>>> And closed again after 15 milliseconds.

 RW>> The Arubans are still on the case...

 MvdV> So why is Jvds in a Peruvian jail and not an Aruban one?

Because the Peruvians know when to act on a crime. Not 90 days from now,
but right away.

 MvdV>>>>> *MY* tax money I might add. More than enough of it was spend
 MvdV>>>>> on a runawy American spitfire for my taste.

 RW>>>> She was not a runaway.

 MvdV>>> The hell she was. Kicked out of hotels lobbies for being drunk
 MvdV>>> at 11 am. She sure was no angel.

 RW>> LOL! Typically, you're repeating hearsay.

 MvdV> From WikiPedia:

 MvdV> Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig, who would head the investigation
 MvdV> from mid-2005 until 2006, described the behavior of the Mountain
 MvdV> Brook students, stating there was "wild partying, a lot of
 MvdV> drinking, lots of room switching every night.

Not unusual, even among native Arubans and so it seems, Dutchmen.

 MvdV>  We know the Holiday Inn told them they weren't welcome next year.

Like that's never happened before. LOL!

 MvdV> Natalee, we know, she drank all day every day.

That's bullshit. I suppose you believe everything you read...sucker.

 MvdV> We have statements she started every morning with cocktails-so much
 MvdV> drinking that Natalee didn't show up for breakfast two
 MvdV> mornings".[30] Two of Holloway's classmates, Liz Cain and Claire
 MvdV> Fierman, "agreed that the drinking was kind of excessive".[

 MvdV> "Nice girls" do not get told by hotel managers they are not welcome
 MvdV> next year.

BS...Nice girls have gone to Tijuana, MX and done the same thing. That's
why those under 18 cannot cross the border without a parent.

 MvdV> Also I may note that those chaperones have not done a very good
 MvdV> job...

Where was vds's chaperone? He was under the influence of alcohol and drugs
and under the age of 18 as well. Had he been chaperoned, Natalie wouldn't
be missing and presumed dead today.

 RW>> According to the Dutch definition; Voluntary and Involuntary
 RW>> Manslaughter is not homicide, but an accidental death caused by
 RW>> negligence.

 MvdV> Wrong.

LOL! Better read your own country's definition so you know what it says.

 MvdV> Accidental death by negligence is not manslaughter. It is "dood
 MvdV> door schuld". Example: A truck driver forgets the parking brake.
 MvdV> Truck rolls away and kills someone. That is not murder (moord), it
 MvdV> is not manslaughter (doodslag), it is "dood door schuld"

It's an accidental death, aka manslaughter, in any language. dood door
schuld is BS to cloud the issue.

 RW>> With the degree to which Joran beat the Peruvian girl, there can be
 RW>> no manslaughter charge, but most definately a murder charge.

 MvdV> That is the US way of thinking. Under Dutch law,

He's not under the jurisdiction of Dutch law, he's under the jurisdiction
of Peruvian law. Peruvian law calls the beating to death of a person;
murder.

 MvdV>  the difference between manslaughter and murder is the
 MvdV> premeditation.

Not in Peruvian law.

 MvdV> Murder requires premeditation. if - as he claimed - he killed hert
 MvdV> in a fit of rage after finding her snooping in his laptop, there is
 MvdV> no premeditation,

That's still murder in Peruvian law.

 MvdV> and so it is manslaughter, not murder. The dgeree of multilation is
 MvdV> irrelevant, the ONLY criterium is the (lack of) premeditation.

Wrong. The degree of multilation enters into the crime's offensiveness to
humanity. The description of the mutilated body would certainly enter into
the charge and thus, from all descriptions of the body, it would call for
a charge of murder.

 RW>>>> Being as they are the authorities in Peru, they can do as they
 RW>>>> please. Joran has no rights as a Peruvian citizen, even if being
 RW>>>> a citizen could help him.

 MvdV>>> Again USaian thinking. In most countries the distinction
 MvdV>>> between a citizen or a foreigner does come into the equation
 MvdV>>> when accused of a criminal offence.

 RW>> Of course it does. Being a foreigner who has murdered a native, has
 RW>> already entered the equation. You can tell that by the way they
 RW>> speak of him in their news articles about him.

 MvdV> There is a difference bewteen what the tabloids write and on hwo
 MvdV> the courts will rule.

Not likely in his case. The court isn't impressed with him enough to worry
about which way they'll rule. The circumstantial evidence was enough to
convince them. Then when he played games with the court by offering and
then retracting a confession and offering to show the authorities where
Natalie's body is in exchange for a deal to be extradited to Holland, not
to mention the charges by Thailand authorities of white slavery, his goose
was cooked.

 RW>>>> LOL! The only way you can get a banana to grow in the Netherlands
 RW>>>> is if one were to fall off a cargo ship and you took it inside.

 MvdV>>> You have no idea what you are talking about.

 RW>> Bananas have a hard time growing in southern California. I doubt
 RW>> they'd do any better in Holland. The difference is at least 20
 RW>> degrees of latitude, California being the warmer (banana growing)
 RW>> climate for it.

 MvdV> Again, you have no idea what we can grow here. We CAN grow bananas
 MvdV> here. The only reason we don't is that it is cheaper to import them
 MvdV> from Africa.

You may be able to grow them there in a green house, if you heat it. I
doubt you can grow them anywhere else in your cold weather climate.

 MvdV>>>>> The days of the US imperium have come to an end.

 RW>>>> LOL! You've been reading too much Al Jazeera bullshit.

 MvdV>>> That is what you think.

 RW>> That is how your writing reads to me. I'm sure I'm not alone in that
 RW>> one.

 MvdV> The you and the others are dead wrong. I do not watch Al Jazeera.
 MvdV> (Maybe I shoulkd)...

What you're preaching here comes from the Al Jazeera tabloids. Most of
their bullshit is just that, bullshit.

 RW>>>> Don't bet your life on it.

 MvdV>>> I never bet.

 RW>> You lie! You already made a bet, right here in this echo.

 MvdV> No, I didn't. You offered me a bet. I did not accept it. (I did
 MvdV> request some clarification about the terms though).

And you made the bet...

 MvdV>>> And so will all the people involved in what you call a case.
 MvdV>>> Natalee Holloway will have been forgotten and nobody will be
 MvdV>>> interested in it any more.

 RW>> With the computer technology we have today, it wouldn't be any
 RW>> problem for the justice department to set an alarm for the
 RW>> anniversary of his sentencing date on a yearly (or less) basis.

 MvdV> Sure, that is possible. So an alarm goes of somewhere. And then the
 MvdV> guy looking at the screen will wonder "who the f**k is Natalee
 MvdV> Holloway?" And he will go on with the more important task of
 MvdV> buttering up his voters for the next election.

More than likely he's not an elected official, but a government employee
who is so bored with his job, anything would pique his curiosity. Once the
alarm sounded, his computer would have all of the information ready for
him to review. He'd be on top of it like stink on shit.

                R\%/itt

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