Text 10479, 167 rader
Skriven 2013-09-26 15:39:38 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av mark lewis (1:3634/12.0)
Ärende: IPv4 and IPv6
=====================
Hello mark,

On Wednesday September 25 2013 15:32, you wrote to me:

 MvdV>> I have completely disabled automatic calling out in my POTS
 MvdV>> mailer. On the very rare occasion that I need/want to make an
 MvdV>> outgoing POTS call, I start it manually. That was easier than
 MvdV>> filtering all the rubbish in the nodelist that could make it
 MvdV>> automatically call unreachable nodes. Here POTS is a relic from
 MvdV>> the past...

 ml> i'm sorry that your chosen mailer did not keep up with the
 ml> capabilities that were being developed back then...

No need to be sorry, I never needed those extra capabilities. My POTS mailer is
a POTS mailer and has never been used for anyting other than making POTS
connections.

 MvdV>> Wait a minute... we we talking IPv6/IPv4 SPECIFIC flags, not IP
 MvdV>> flags in general...

 ml> same difference...

The difference is that those IPv6 only nodes that you do not want to call do
not exist...

 ml>  my mailer uses IBN, IFC and similar to prevent outbound calls... if a
 ml> system also has ITN or IVM, then it will call them...

I consider FTS-1 or EMSI over Telnet or Vmodem an interesting experiment from
the early days of Fido over IP. It is like the early automobiles that looked
very much like the carriages used with horses. But cars developed and so did
Fido over IP. We now have cars that perform better than the horseless carriage
eand we now have the Binkp protocol which is much better suited to fit the
reuirements of transporting Fidonet data over TCP/IP.

 ml> there is no need for my system to attempt to try to connect with an
 ml> IPv6 only system since they cannot talk to each other at all...

It will not attempt to do that, since there aren't any.

 MvdV>> Since you do not have IPv6, and they have IPv4, you have no
 MvdV>> need to know that they are also IPv6 capable. And that goes for
 MvdV>> everyone who is IPv4 only. The IPv4 only don't need it. The
 MvdV>> dual stack guys do not need it. Nobody needs it.

 ml> not yet they don't but it will come...

Or not.

Maybe FidoNet will be dead before we see the First IPv6 only node. Maybe when
we see the first IPv6 only node, all the rest will already have at least
outgoing IPv6 capability IPv6, so that "your problem" is solved before it is
born. Or maybe something else happens...

 ml> just like the ISDN flags were used to prevent POTS systems from trying
 ml> to connect with ISDN systems... especially ISDN only systems...

I always used "300" to prevent making POTS calls to isdn only nodes. ( I still
think allowing ISDN only nodes was a mistake that could and therefore should
have been avoided, but that's another story)

 ml> please remember the reasoning for having these flags and being able
 ml> to use them for restricting outbound calls...

No need to explain, I have used flags to prevent my POTS mailer from calling
binkp capable nodes and let the IP mailer do the job.

Unfortunately sloppy nodelist clercks have made that method unreliable. It
happened too often that mail went out via POTS, that could have been delivered
by binkp. So I completely disabled automatic dialing out by POTS.

 ml> while you are at it, let's also not forget that not every system is
 ml> the same or has all of the same capabilities ;)

Of course. I even have discarded capabilities that I tried out because I found
them more of a liability than an asset...

 ml>> i don't need experience with IPv6 to know that none of my systems
 ml>> can connect to an IPv6 only system...

 MvdV>> There are no IPv6 only Fidonet systems.

 ml> there will be... you can count on it...

Maybe. And if/when they do "your problem" may have solved itself already.

 MvdV>> You are trying to cross a bridge that is still beyond the
 MvdV>> horizon...

 ml> sorry but it is not...

Yes it is.

 ml> it is on my horizon and has been for a few years...

There are no IPv6 only nodes.

When there is just one, you can just as easily block it by node number as by
flag. When there are two it is just 10 seconds more work. When there are three,
we can consider a flag. If the problem is not solved in another way by then...

 MvdV>> Those should not run servers as they have no control over the
 MvdV>> traffic...

 ml> right... tell that to all the ones that DO run servers on metered
 ml> services...

"Hey guys, you should not run servers on a metered service!"  OK?

 ml> have you never tried to connect to a web server and been met with a
 ml> message to the effect of "this server has exceeded its monthly traffic
 ml> allotment"?? i have... many times...

I have not and I have never even heard about that problem until just now.

 ml>> we've already seen what happens when ones alloted monthly connection
 ml>> traffic is consumed by others... it is one reason why we have no more
 ml>> nodes listed in Africa and why that zone no longer exists :/

 MvdV>> Nonsense.

 ml> no, it is not...

I think it is.

 ml> that is no where near the point i was making and has absolutely
 ml> nothing to do with it... i was speaking directly of russel tiedt's
 ml> connectivity to the international world... it was limited to a monthly
 ml> quota and when it ran out (mostly due to his children pulling traffic
 ml> over it instead of using their internal to africa only connection)
 ml> then no one outside of africa could contact his system and he could
 ml> not contact anyone outside of africa... this happened numerous
 ml> times...

Russel Tiedt. Yes he is (or was?) a nice guy. But... he had his oddities.

 ml>  i know specifically because i had mail waiting for his system
 ml> to come and pick up numerous times

So did I and often it just sat there for weeks or longer because he was out of
reach.

 ml> as well as our conversations being cut short until the beginning of
 ml> the next month when the quota count was reset...

Yeah and then his computer was stolen. And then thiefs stole the copper in the
street, And then his dog ate the modem. And the cat had kittens.

His excuses for his repeated absences became so numerous and inconsistent that
they lost credibility.

The decline of Z5 followed the same pattern that we saw in Z6. People leaving
because they lose interest and find greener pastures. A ZC that keeps up
appearances but in the end has to admit that (s)he is the last one standing. Z4
is now repeating that history...

 ml> i was even working with him with the firewall software i support so
 ml> that it would be able to handle routing to both connections so that
 ml> his children would not cause his quota to run out like it did...

And then he lost interest and pulled the plug...

Cheers, Michiel

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