Text 12224, 116 rader
Skriven 2014-01-29 10:38:46 av alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
  Kommentar till text 12208 av Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
Ärende: Re: Crosspost
=====================
Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 28.01.2014 09:27


  ak>> The problem is that the Ukraine government is a pragmatic body,
  ak>> and it sees that if it follows the EU's demand to rise prices, cut
  ak>> wages etc it will make an unacceptable shock therapy for the
  ak>> majority of Ukrainians. The Ukraine is in a deep crisis now, it
  ak>> needs tens of billion dollars to struggle and keep its economy
  ak>> afloat.

  WD> I understand.

  WD> What you need to understand from your part is that EU will "in the
  WD> long term" help Ukraine to benefit and thrive. It has in the past
  WD> helped the new economies and the synergies seem beneficial.

    Aha, beneficial -- I know that millions of people who left their
"happy" countries in hope to earn some money in Europe. In the UK you
cannot spit without hitting a Pole plumber or another Eastern Europe
gastarbeiter. But their own countries don't prosper at all. They don't
build plants, they have no young people who are eager to build their own
country. The great shipyard in Gdansk (the cradle of fighting with
Communism in Poland) is a bankrupt, and it kicked its workers out.

  WD> The EU will promote Ukraine to the rest of the world and make it a
  WD> self-sustaining and self-promoting country.

    The modern capitalist world is like a forest. It is natural that high
trees don't allow small trees to thrive. Small, young trees are doomed
to be cachectic stalks. They have no chances to build a strong bodies
capable to compete with such "trees" like Germany, France, the UK, the
US, Japan. The only chance for them is to exist withing a union where
the law of survival is not similar to the Jungle law. And it is not a
union of capitalist countries. Rich capitalist countries don't want new
business rivals -- they just need markets for their industry and cheap
labor force.

  WD> What Russia needs is a satellite state to replace the satellite
  WD> states it previously had as the USSR to dump its products. The
  WD> well-being of the Ukrainians is not very prominent on mr. Putin's
  WD> mind, just how to enrich himself and his croonies.

    I have already said above why the EU capital needs the Ukraine --
only as a market and cheap labor force. If the Ukraine tries to invade
the European market with its goods, for instance steel, food, it will
instantly realize that it is not able to do it. Russia also can sell a
lot of steel, aluminum, copper etc, but the European market preserves
itself and doesn't allow such things happen.

  ak>> The opposition denies the constitution because it has not majority
  ak>> in Parliament, which has been, BTW, democratically elected.

  WD> That's in contradiction of the high-level government posts which
  WD> they were offered in exchange for silence.

    It can easily be predicted that the Maidan leaders will refuse from
high posts. They are able only to shout and have no real program to do.

  ak>> The EU has his own outsiders (Greece, Spane, Portugal) -- EU has
  ak>> not such a big money for the Ukraine.
  WD> You probably have never heard about the ECB (European Central Bank)
  WD> and the EIB (European Investment Bank). Those monies do not come
  WD> from the EU itself as a body and are not a donation. Several
  WD> stupidities have been circulated, but the reality is that due to
  WD> the harsh regimen imposed on Ireland, Portugal and especially
  WD> Greece these 3 countries are now beginning to recover and deal with
  WD> things under their own power.

    We will see when they recover. As for now, I see in these countries
turmoil and people's outrage. Germany is called as an economical
aggressor, and Angela Merkel is drawn in the Spain and Greece newspapers
with Hitler's mustache. ;-)

  WD> That is exactly what Moscow does not want the Ukraine to become,
  WD> they want it needy and dependant. And every means will be used for
  WD> that, blackmail and extortion in deficult times by threatening gas-
  WD> imports to start with.

    Russia and the Ukraine have always been depended on each other. They
have been mutually complementary. Russia's production is needed in
Ukraine; the Ukraine has big markets in Russia for its production. There
is no such a big market for the Ukraine in the EU. All market places in
Europe are already divided and occupied.

  ak>> They have held democratic elections. But the problem is that the
  ak>> Ukraine is divided. However, I believe that if the Ukraine splits
  ak>> up it will be profitable for all the people on its territory.
  ak>> Every part will live as it wants. The constant crazy Ukraine style
  ak>> quarrel will come to an end.

  WD> It indeed seems to be 2 countries forced into one.

    For instance, Czechoslovakia had solved the problem quickly and it
was divided peacefully, in a civilized way.

  WD> After such a split however, the part siding with Moscow and Putin
  WD> will be the losers, civil war then looms and the big bear will need
  WD> to invade to restore law and order.

    I would not be in a hurry to tell who will be the looser. As for
invasion -- if they split by their own will they will not have ground
for civil war.

  WD> I'm old enough to remember when they did that in Hungary, East
  WD> Germany, Tsjecho-Slovakia, Poland... is it in your history books or
  WD> carefully omitted?

    In those countries the USSR defended Communism. In Ukraine Russia has
nothing to defend. All relations are built on money.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2014
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
 * Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)