Text 28001, 281 rader
Skriven 2015-09-07 01:10:00 av Bill McGarrity (20193.2fidonews)
Kommentar till text 27994 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: Re: Z1C
===============
-=> David Drummond wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-
DD> On 7/09/2015 9:47 AM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:
DD>> I do not live in FIDO - FIDONET is just a set of technical specs. All
DD>> else is personal equipment and personally financed data links.
BM> Yet you play your games here... a presence. Think of it as a virtual
BM> reality and you ARE a member of this evil society!!
DD> I don't have a membership card or a membership number. My computer has
DD> a node number, just as it has an IP. I am not a member of the Internet
DD> either.
And you use that node number to communicate... therefore to communicate via
this technology, you're a member. Just as a user of my BBS is a member. Pretty
simple concept.
[...]
DD>> Those are not internet rules - they are the laws of the country I live
DD>> in. The Internet has no laws.
BM> So you're admitting you have to follow rules regarding internet usage?
DD> Mmmmm...
BM> sounds alot like Fido.
DD> Nope I obey (some of) the laws of the land.
Better not let the uber lords of Oz hear that....
DD> I don't get child porn via
DD> snail mail either. I am not a member of Australia Post BTW.
The thing is, once the lines of communication via the internet hit Oz, their
rules take over. Just like maritime laws of a country. International waters I
would agree with you, there are no laws but cross that line... oh well.
DD> [...]
DD>> I didn't say that - I specified that I wasn't dependent on my NC to
DD>> pass on my netmail. You are aware of the nodelist entry for a "mail
DD>> host"?
BM> Yes, and /your/ was wrong terminology. In some way you, as well as I, are
BM> dependent on the structure as used now. Even if we get rid of all the
DD> RC's
BM> there will still be NC's that handle duties. Hell, even you are running
BM> an NC flag. Why? Thought they weren't needed?
DD> We need nodelist clerks at the moment. If we could come up with a
DD> dynamic system - like DHCP, then we wouldn't need them either. True
DD> democracy and freedom - everyone with the same (lack of) power.
Work on that... I'd be interested... rill then, you're bound by the /clerk/
system.
BM>> Lots of them out there that have no idea you're even in the loop.
DD>> They don't even know of me so why would they care?
BM> They're caring people. You may not see it... but there are a few in the
DD> world.
DD> Very few in Z1 Fidonet (going by the behaviour here)
Really? Do you know every listed node member in Z1? Z2? Z3 I'll give you..
lol!!
BM>> How does one send you netmail?
DD>> You send it routed I guess - same as you would any other PVT node. I
DD>> have received netmails since I have been listed PVT so it must be
DD>> possible.
BM> My point.
DD> We don't need a political layer of power mongers telling us what/how to
DD> do just to get mail. Just the technical specs.
But you need the /clerks/... as of now. Put your system together based on DHCP
then you may have a point.
BM>> I can't send it direct therefore it has to go through one of
BM>> the *C's I'm connected to. That in itself blows your theory out of the
BM>> water.
DD>> Or you drop it at this net's mail host
BM> Which is?
DD> 3:640/0 according to a nodelist 247 I collected from Janis yesterday.
DD> Are you not seeing that?
Sure I do... the entry starts with Host. I'm sure that Host is responsible for
the weekly segment of your net.... right? A clerk of as I like to put it, a *C
member.
DD> But unless you want to make an international phone call, you cannot, he
DD> is POTS only according to that list. I guess you're going to have to
DD> send it routed from your end, or drop it at R54C - or Z3C. You could
DD> drop it anywhere in Fidonet actually and it would find its way to me -
DD> assuming people have their systems set up correctly.
DD> Maybe better just to say what you want here.
DD>> [...]
BM>>> It seems it's still required in cases such as yourself.
DD>>> Nope no LD costs for my node. - Just normal Internet expenses.
BM>> I was talking about your internet expense as you pointed out
BM> previously.
DD>> That expense doesn't vary with the distance of the target node as it
DD>> did when moving mail by POTS.
BM> No one said it does... I'm stictly talking about today's FIdo.... not
BM> the past.
DD> Today's Fido does not exist as it did - just a bunch of us sending
DD> messages to each other.
And that has changed from the reasoning of yesteryear? There are many more
echos other thn this one where people are communicating freely with no deep
rooted strife as to how the magic message appears on their screen.
DD>> [...]
DD>>> Each node has a majority of one - the "net" concept is as outdated as
DD>>> the zone concept. There is no need for hierarchical mail movement now.
BM>> Again, your opinion but without them and their routing procedure how do I
DD>> send you a netmail?
DD>> You don't need your *Cs for that, you could drop it at someone in the
DD>> structure here (if they're not PVT). Maybe at the mail host.
DD>> [...]
BM>> Do you call your elected officials in Oz uber lords?
DD>> Just the Fidonet ones.
BM> So you're saying Fido uber lords are elected? I see. So either way,
DD> you're
BM> stuck without a vote.
DD> Huh? I get to vote in Fidonet elections (that involve me)
Sure you do, just as you were invited to the one where P4 was looking to be
ratified. It's been plainly stated over and over again both in the nodelist,
usually preceeded with a ;S is infrmation of importance. Can you blame anyone
but yourself for not personally inviting you to the party? The invitation was
sent... you just never RSVP'd.
BM> Intersting. I'd be more concerned with gaining the power of the ballot in
DD> your country of residence rather than worrying about Fido,
BM> which you stated many times you really don't give two shits about. Why
DD> put the effort into protesting IF you were aware or had a vote 25+
DD> years ago?
BM> You want a change.. call for it.
DD> Australia has two major political parties. They only difference between
DD> them is the colour of their ties.
DD>>> Try one vote per node, and a central vote counting system - TRUE
DD>>> democracy.
BM>> Sorry to say you're living a dream...
DD>> So.. true democracy in a group as small as ours is not possible? It
DD>> certainly worked in the motorcycle group I used to belong to. All
DD>> members got to vote on stuff.
BM> You had 2,700+ bikers in your group?
DD> No - about 600 at its height I think
BM> Damn... must have taken a long time to get crosstown.
DD> They never rode all together at one time - they were spread out over
DD> the whole state. Think of an area about 1/5th the size of USA....
DD> [...]
I've been on a ride where close to 1 million bikes showed up in Washington DC.
600 is a weekend run for us here in the state of NJ... about 1/1000th the size
of Oz.
BM>> Without the originators of Fido we wouldn't be having this discussion....
BM>> respect your elders.. ;)
DD>> Respect is not just given, it must be earned.
BM> So by using this technology you're already given your respect.
DD> Respect may need defining - to me it is to hold in high regard. I have
DD> no such feelings for the FTN software authors - they just... are
BM> No respect, don't use it...
DD> I have entered in to no such agreement. have you been partaking of
DD> Joe's secret "reading between the lines" book?
You just said you have no such feelings for the software authors YET you use
the very software you mock. Interesting. Seems with that attitude you've lost
the respect of the authors. Guess you know everything so you can write your
own. Good luck.
DD> [...]
DD>> Not dreams, facts.
BM> Again, outside of the realm of our discussion...
DD> I'm pointing out that I am not in Fidonet for the "power and glory"
No one is... that's the shipon your shuolder that thinks that.
DD>> [...]
DD>>> Others can communicate with me - simply send an netmail, or say
DD>>> something in one of these echoes. my system resides behind NATs -
DD>>> somewhat difficult to poll in.
BM>> But God forbid... that would depend on a *C to route it to you.
DD>> We do have a mail host in this net... My NC need not be involved!
Yet above you have me the address of a NC as your mail hub.
BM>>> Till then, you're at the mercy of your NC which,
DD>>> My NC is a right utter bastard - I wouldn't leave myself at his mercy.
DD>>> My node operates independent of him.
BM>> Yet you're still here at his mercy whether you believe it or not.
DD>> He will/can not do anything against me - I have control of him :)
BM> But zero control over the other *C structure.... if they so desire.
DD> We work in this region/zone by cooperation - we don't need rules to
DD> make us obey.
You're following the rules whether you like them or not. Burying your head in
the sand will not make them go away.
DD> [...]
BM> We're all an island and as such we are all dependent on some sort of
BM> /structure/ that allows conmunication.
DD> Only the technical structure - we don't need any political layer of
DD> people who think they run things.
BM> Whether you can see that or not is not my issue... nor my monkeys... nor
DD> my circus.
BM> You're allowed to have your opinions as I am allowed... but you know what
DD> they
BM> say about opinions...
DD> Everyone is entitled an opinion - and if they feel the need for one
DD> I'll give them mine.
Good....as I have as well. Guess we'll let the masses decide. Or do you think
our conversation will be censured by the uber lords?? I better check nuder the
bed tonight before I go to sleep...
--
Bill
Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net
FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live
... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
=== MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
|