Text 33487, 126 rader
Skriven 2016-05-27 16:46:46 av Allen Prunty (1:2320/100)
  Kommentar till text 33480 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
Ärende: RE: Dictatorship in Fidonet
===================================
On May 27, 2016 07:10pm, Lee Lofaso wrote to Allen Prunty:

 LL> P4 is a joke, written by only a small handful of sysops
 LL> within one section of the world, never ratified, and actually
 LL> rejected by most sysops around the world.  Sysops have the
 LL> real power, not anybody who pretends to wield power through
 LL> a document that has no legitimacy (except among that small
 LL> clique who wrote it and worship it).

P4 has some "best practices" in it but think about it, it calls for a line to
be up and running no callers during netmail hours.  Who actually has a POTS
line anymore... it's dated.

 LL> Fidonet does have echopol1, which is a legitimate document
 LL> that has worked well for sysops around the world.  But then,
 LL> the sysops who wrote that document have never tried to hide
 LL> their faces as to who actually wrote it.

I would love to read it, but sadly I've not turned it up on my search.

 LL> Have you ever read the US Constitution?  Notice those who
 LL> wrote it also signed the document.  With their real names.

True on that point but it was a paper document.

 LL> Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence?  Notice
 LL> those who wrote it also signed the document.  With their
 LL> real names.  The British certainly noticed.  In both cases.
 LL> And the British did not like it.  Especially the King.

The king at the time was an ass!

 LL> Now.  Tell me why those who wrote P4 were too chickenshit
 LL> to have signed their names.  Embarrassing, isn't it?  Even
 LL> more embarrassing is the fact that there are some who
 LL> continue to worship that piece of cyberjunk as if it was
 LL> some kind of holy relic, written by the goddess herself.

Lee if you are calling Janis the "Goddess" I had a node up in Louisville a long
time before the filegate came around.  I ran as a region 11 node for many years
until other bbs's decided they wanted in and we formed Net 2320.  And I laugh
when someone calls her the "supreme leader" I hardly see her that way.  She's a
friend, she has helped me along the way here and there but in all the years I
have known her she has never once given me an order.

There was a time where a sysop in Louisville came along and bought one of those
satellite dishes that downloaded the fido mail.  It was nice, I thought the
direct connect over POTS was better, but the other sysops voted me off the NEC
(when we had Net Echomail Coordinators) island because in their eyes they were
"helping me" that's shortly after Janis left Louisville... it was their choice
and I let them go with it, even tried it for a while.  Then found a way to get
unlimited long distnace and went with that over the satellite mess that
occasionaly dropped entire packets.

 LL> Consolodated by who?  By whose authority?  Did the sysops themselves
 LL> choose to join one zone or another?  Nope.  Not given a choice in
 LL> that matter.  Somebody else did the choosing for them.  Without their
 LL> consent.  Probably without their knowledge, although some might have
 LL> found out about it through the grapevine.

I am sure that a decision was made somewhere in the ZC grapevine.  Janis
definately does not have any authority in Zone 2 that I know of.  Ward handles
things pretty well there.  There are times I've not agreed with Either of them,
but Janis does a good service for Z1... and Ward does a good service for z2.
The Z3 person has not made there presence with title known, I assume they do a
great job too.

 LL> When Fidonet was founded by Tom Jennings & Co., there were no zones.
 LL> And no need for the creation of any zones.  Not then, or any time in
 LL> the future.  So why does Fidonet have zones?  Whether it is 6, or 4,
 LL> or 10, or whatever other number that comes to mind, it makes no sense.
 LL> Zones create barriers.  And Fidonet is supposed to be about removing
 LL> barriers, not creating them.

Like phone numbers, the node growth was great at one time.  you can only get
so many nodes from the first numberint scheme.

 LL> That is how democracy works.  The more the merrier.  An infinite
 LL> number of zones is the most pro-democratic idea there can be.
 LL> But that is outside of Fidonet.  Within the world of Fidonet, it
 LL> should be one giant FidoZone.  An infinite FidoZone, with no
 LL> beginning and no end.

Limited only by the amount of numbers in it's node scheme.

 AP>> FamilyNet was also crossgated heavily into fidonet... especially the
 AP>> BIBLE echo.  I know that the Bible echo was the polar opposite of
 AP>> HOLYSMOKE.

 LL> Not all religion echoes are a clockwork orange (totally good
 LL> or totally evil).  Although they can be.  I used to participate
 LL> in several, so I know.  ;)

Why not come back... I remember you from back in the day.  You had some very
thought provoking posts.

 AP>> I believe we can restore fidonet but it's come a time where we need to
 AP>> start drafting a P5 with the goal of preserving and growing fidonet
 AP>> again.  P4 is OLD... it's a dead document.  We need something better...
 AP>> something we can all follow.  Before fidonet is a dead network.

 LL> Echopol1 works just fine, and has for decades.  We should continue
 LL> to use it, and discard the cyberjunk (P4).  Howzzat?  Isn't that a
 LL> great solution?  In fact, since the whole world (except zone 1) has
 LL> already rejected P4, we are almost there.  All you need to do is
 LL> do like the rest of the world.  Ignore P4 for what it is, and accept
 LL> echopol1 as your own standard.  And then you will be one of us!


I've ignored P4 for years pretty much.  Since I'm re-installed as the NEC I
could push the issue to get net 2320 to poll me.  I've culled some of the dead
nodes and sent the edit in.  Their domains are parked or owned offshore... and
their pots lines are disconnected.

I could be an ass and mandate that the poll me every now and then.  But I
won't.  I have two that I'm not sure are down or up I've e-mailed their domain
contact if no answer then I will drop them in two weeks.

Can someone please crash in echopol1 via bink-p to 1:2320/100 I would be most
thankful

Allen

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