Text 34800, 151 rader
Skriven 2016-07-25 16:29:50 av Allen Prunty (6226.fidonews)
Kommentar till text 34734 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Trying to understand...
===============================
Re: CG Learn and Fidonews
By: Michiel van der Vlist to Allen Prunty on Mon Jul 25 2016 12:40 pm
AP>> That is a list of echos that pass through your system... it's not a
AP>> catalog of what is and isn't available in your zone? How do you
AP>> ultimately know what is out there?
MV> I don't. I know what is available through my links. That is all I need to
MV> know.
Michael,
Then bear with me becuse I have some questions and thought processes I need to
work through. I really want to come to some understanding here because who am
I to say that you guys have somethign over there that works that we might want
to try.
So I am clear the only way you know what echos are available is by using a
%list from your hub's areafix? That may work well and good for you but let's
say that we have users who are interested in Sailing for example and you have
an echo called SALING over there that would be enjoyed over here in Z1 by
people who are also interested in SAILING.
How are we in Z1 to know that you have a sonderful sailing echo over there?
Perhaps your hubs organize their Areafix section a lot better than we do.
Perhaps you have a robust system of updating from peer to peer that way that we
dont. I won't deny that a lot of software in use over here in the Unted States
has been updated in a long time. Husky, a program you guys use over there,
seems to be much more up to date than most of what is in use in Z1. BBBS,
Mystic and Synchronet are the only major software packages over here that are
still getting upsated. BTW Your FTS repository is very nice.
Regardless, the thing that bothers me the most is I am not limited to one
language. I have many friends who speak other languages and am not afraid to
carry echos in German, Spanish, Italian, or any other language I speak.
I would love to see what is available in Z2 and Z3 for all that matter, but I
feel that it's veiled in secrecy. There's just no way to see it. Setting the
Echolist aside there's no way of knowing... and no way of asking what is
avialble. Part of building a bridge is making things accessible... maybe the
echolist is not the answer, but it sure would be nice to know what we can share
amongst each other.
MV> No it does not. It does not say there MUST be an echolist.
Is this website accurate? Is it part of fidoweb? Again only posting this as
this is what is out there... this is also part of the echopol1.txt document
that's been floating out there. Again I'm not trying to use this to start
something but there has been many who have thrown echopol1 at us as a defence
or justification for how they want things... yet it does state in the words
"echolist" that some are to be kept by the NEC.
--------------------------------------------
http://www.junik.lv/~fido/eng/echopol.htm
3.4 Duties Of Net EchoMail Coordinator
It is the duty of the NEC to coordinate the intra-net Echomail and
to cooperate with the REC and NECs of other nets to arrange for the
inter-net transmittal of echomail. The REC may require the NEC to provide
links for independent (regional) nodes. The NEC shall maintain a list of
available Echomail Conferences within the net as well as the requirements
of each Conference area as supplied by the conference moderator
(Echolist). The NEC shall also monitor compliance with this policy at a
net level.
--------------------------------------------
And I must add there's a lot of good practices to be found in that website as
well... but they are just that Good practices, as you point out Policy4 is 30
years old and there's been a lot of changes. Evolution is a good thing if we
-all- keep up with the changes.
MV> You have been away from Fidonet fro a long time. You apparently have no
MV> idea what happened in the last 15 years. You have missed that we no longer
MV> have (and need) an IC. You have missed that attempts at changing policy
MV> have failed miserably. You seem to think that moderators still have some
MV> power and can enforce rules. You have missed the Fidonews coup and the
MV> emergence of the Fidoweb as a result. You have missed all that. Your
MV> perception of what Fidonet is like, is at least 15 years old. You have no
MV> idea how it functions today.
Actually I've only been gone 9 not quite 15 and I've always tried to keep an
eye on things. Whether or not policy has been changed... precidents and
practices have changed and things have been established.
One thing about the Fidoweb is no one in Zone 1 seems to know a lot about it.
How it works, or what it's structure is. Again I'm not so closed minded to
explore the possibility that you guys may have come up with something that may
work better... but none of us knows the theroies of how it works. It's not
something readily discussed here in Z1. There isn't a FIDOWEB echo.... or is
there??? How are we to know? I certainly would like to know more about it,
how it works and how it came to be. I may even be willing to give it a try.
MV> And yet, a couple of month ago, you re-emerge from nowhere. You come
MV> storming in like a bull in a china shop, telling us you will "fix things".
MV> That Allen, is not a good recipe to win a popularity contest.
You know there's an old appalacian saying out there... sometimes it takes a
whirlwind to get some change going... Perhaps what needs to be blown around is
over here in Z1 not Z2 or even Z3. Perhaps things -need- to be stirred up to
get people thinking about things... I hope that you are seeing why some of us
have some appreciation for our echolist... it's nice to have a catalog to look
at to see what we can add to our systems to enhance the experiences for our
users. And it may actually get chat going between the zones with some better
content echos. Right now All we have going on is our awful embarrassing
political discussions. It's no wonder the rest of the world thinks the USA has
lost our minds.
MV> If you do not wat to be my enemy then drop this missionary attitude. Right
MV> now you are the same pain in the ass as Joehava's wittnesses banging at my
MV> door attempting to convert me to their religeon. They at least have the
I will try if you try to see some things from my viewpoint. I feel like we are
moving forward now to at leat building a bridge... not burnign one.
BTW... If you have a problem with JW's ... tell them that you are
"Disfellowshipped" that means that you have been shunned from the Church and
they will leave immediately and will put your house on a list to be avoided.
Works every time ... now if I could only figure out something that works as
well with the mormons.
MV> outweigh the cons. We do not want to turn back the clock, We do not need
MV> an echolist, we do not want an echolist.
Then if you have a better system that may actually work better for us then
please share it... unless you got a secret book of Michiel over there (Just
Kidding)... seriously it works both ways. I think you guys have heard enough
on why we like our echolist... now tell us how -we- can survive without one.
I'm totally willing to listen with an open mind... I ask, in fairness, for
everyone else to do the same.
MV> If you do not understand it, bad luck for you. I have no need for you to
MV> understand it, I just want you to drop it. I do not want to be converted.
Then it will be dropped further if you don't want to explain it. I just think
we have more that we can learn from each other if we take the time to work
togehter. I am especially intrigued in the fidoweb would much rather have
someone like you explain it as you seem to have the best knowledge of it of
anyone else I've asked.
Allen
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