Text 2232, 148 rader
Skriven 2004-08-01 01:51:04 av mark lewis (1:3634/12)
   Kommentar till text 2221 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: http compatability flag
===============================
 >> >>  MvdV> Exactly my point. What does it offer that Binkp does
 >> >>  MvdV> not? What is the added value of adding yet another
 >> >>  MvdV> protocol for doing the same thing?

 >>  >> larger audience potential?

 >>  MvdV> How?

 >> by allowing those who can't join or otherwise participate
 >> via existing methods to have a method by which they can...
 >> i'm surprised you didn't see this...

 MvdV> To be part of the audiance,

we're NOT talking about the /audience/... we're talking about membership in the
network... to be a member you have to have an entry in the nodelist... to have
that, you have to be able to transfer FTN mail by at least one of several
means...

 MvdV> one does not need to be
 MvdV> nodelisted. Users and points too are part of the audiance.
 MvdV> promoting users and pints to sysops does not make the
 MvdV> audiance any larger. I'm surprised you didn't see this...

again, we're not talking about the /audience/... i do see what you are saying
however, you do not seem to be seeing what i and others are saying...

 >> >> would that not allow for others to rejoin the network and
 >> >> enable it to grow?
 >>
 >>  MvdV> I doubt it. As I see it, it will just saddle the
 >>  MvdV> potential newcomer with the additional problem of
 >>  MvdV> choosing protocols.

 >> no different than all the protocols already in use on the
 >> internet...

 MvdV> The InterNet users makes no such choices. he does not have
 MvdV> to carefully search for an ISP that supports the protocols
 MvdV> of his choice. They ALL support POP3 and SMTP.

we're not talking about /USERS/... we're talking about members and those who
make things work... those are the systems that are the main points of
connection and the developers that create the tools with which to use the
capabilities provided...

 >>  MvdV> Have a look at the video renting bussiness. In the
 >>  MvdV> beginning there  were three competing standards: VHS,
 >>  MvdV> Betamax and V2000, So video shops had to store fims
 >>  MvdV> in three standards. Lots of[...]

 >> TTBONK, i can't say that i've ever been aware of video
 >> rental shops that far back... beta was already dead and
 >> gone by the time i ever saw a video rental place...

 MvdV> And why do you think that is?

because it wasn't available... because it wasn't profitable... because no one
asked for it...

 MvdV> Why do you think to video bussiness threw out standards
 MvdV> execpt one?

that would depend on what you are calling a "video business"... is that one who
makes the products or one who rents or sells the products?

 MvdV> The answer should be staring you in the face: maintaining
 MvdV> incompatible competing standards to do the same thing is
 MvdV> a waste of effort and resources.

sorry, if one can make a couple of million dollars on a failing standard, it
doesn't seem like a waste of effort or resources...

 >>  MvdV> needless overhead for them and the customer could find that
 >>  MvdV> the only cioy of a movie he wanted was the wrong standard. It
 >>  MvdV> was great relief for everyine whem betamx and V2000 petered
 >>  MvdV> out and VHS became the only remaining standard.

 >> how about another example, please?

 MvdV> Why do you think it is difficuolt to find a good example? The
 MvdV> answer should again be staring you in the face: because having
 MvdV> incompatible competing standards is a waste of resources. So
 MvdV> such a condition usually does not last very long. You will
 MvdV> only find that situation in during the introduction of a new
 MvdV> technology.

 MvdV> How about the metric and Withworth nuts and bolts? Or are you
 MvdV> going to tell me that Withworth has finally faded out in the
 MvdV> US as well?

i've never heard of them so i can't comment on them...

 >> maybe one that fits with today's technology? the internet has
 >> how many different protocols travelling over it at any given second??

 MvdV> Those protocols do different things. There are very few
 MvdV> incompatible competing protocols to do the same thing. Email
 MvdV> and news uses POP3 and SMTP. Browsers use HTTP. or file
 MvdV> transers one uses FTP.

you're incorrect, again... there are numerous competing peer-to-peer network
protocols out there... there are also several one-to-one chat protocols out
there... news doesn't use email services for transport... news uses NNTP for
its transport... and files are transported over all those and several other
protocols...

 >>  MvdV> Anyway, that was not my question. My question was not "what is
 >>  MvdV> the advantage of more standards?", my question was "what does
 >>  MvdV> this particular proposed standard (http) offer what Binkp
 >>  MvdV> doesn't?". is it faster? More reliable? More secure?

 >> more widely available, how's that?

 MvdV> Available to whom?

those who want it... that answer was staring you right in the face ;)

 MvdV> Do you really believe you can get a "blank"
 MvdV> internet user to install the necesary auxillary programs and
 MvdV> join FidoNet. Dream on...

if they want to join, they will do what's necessary just as you and thousands
of others did... heck, some didn't even have to go very far... they acquired
and liked one of those all in one setups that only needed unzipping and
configuration... there's even complete bbs and mailer combo setups like that
out there...

 >> and it also doesn't take any special server (over and above
 >> a normal web server) to handle, either ;)

 MvdV> But it does. You need a Fidonet mail editor and something to
 MvdV> convert it's output into *.PKT's.

no, again that's not true... you only need a way to read and write PKTs... way
back when, and i still have the software around here somewhere, i used to read
and create PKT files directly without any message bases or tossers involved...
it was as basic as you could get... worked great, too... i'd pull my mail,
unarchive the bundle and then start thru the PKTs... when i wanted to reply to
a message i was reading, the software i was using would gather the info needed,
quote the message, and open an editor... i used several different editors back
then... even the old Turbo Pascal 3 editor at times... anyway, when i saved
what i had, the software then took it and appended it directly into a PKT that
it created to send back to my feed... nothing all that special about it...

)\/(ark

 * Origin: (1:3634/12)